Tuning Performance Tyres - need your advice / experiences

[loveshandbags]

Bridgestone, Kumho, Goodyear, Continental and the European Commission are saying the cloud of rain bit is for wet grip, michelin, pirelli are saying its for wet braking. the 2 things are not the same a tyre that stops in the wet in a straight line wont always go the way you want it to cornering or on a roundabout.

The EU rating figure across all the brands is Wet Braking - I can't imagine that there would be inconsistency in the way that it is measured. Goodyear's web site clearly states that it is for Wet Braking but in the context of Wet Grip.

Wet Handling is sometimes referred to as Wet Grip - an example. That may be where the confusion is. The other 'Wet' area that's measured is Aquaplaning which can be seen if one has access the likes of the ADAC tests.

So in summary there's
Wet Braking - this is on the EU label
Wet Handling (Grip)
Aquaplaning

 

[dave]

http://ec.europa.eu/energy/efficiency/tyres/labelling_en.htm

says wet grip. the pdf says better wet grip means better wet braking, it don't say better wet braking is better grip. so with people like goodyear they may stop you if you brake in a straight line better in the wet but what about if you are not going straight. going straight isnt when you normally need more grip as you can just leave a bigger gap between you and the car in front

What does the label NOT pretend to be?
The label is NOT a quality label covering all aspects related to the overall
performance of a tyre. It cannot replace quality testing by specialised laboratories
or information provided by manufacturers and others (e.g. motoring associations),
which may use a wide range of criteria for quality. In that respect it is similar to the
energy efficiency label for washing machines, which indicates how much electricity a
washing machine typically uses per year, but does not say anything about specific extra
functions a washing machine might have.
For example, the indication M&S (mud and snow) is not part of the tyre label, as
it should already be marked on the side of a tyre in accordance with an
international convention. Other parameters such as behaviour in aquaplaning or
handling on curves could not be included in the labelling scheme because of the lack of
recognised standardised testing methods.

so really the labels mean naff all!
why are people saying the t1r load rating is wrong but then recomending another tyre with the same load rating?

 

[SteveTDCi]

I buy a tyre based on wet grip, in the dry while i grant you there is a bit of a difference its only when its wet do you need all the grip you can get. Oh and after having a bad experience with Toyo's I would never have them again.

 

[dave]

I buy a tyre based on wet grip, in the dry while i grant you there is a bit of a difference its only when its wet do you need all the grip you can get. Oh and after having a bad experience with Toyo's I would never have them again.

toyo whats?

I buy a tyre based on wet grip, i

and how do you decide what tyre has best wet grip? because as we can see the new EU label wont tell you

 

[SteveTDCi]

toyo whats?

and how do you decide what tyre has best wet grip? because as we can see the new EU label wont tell you

I cannot remember what they were, they were some sporty type and they split, i also had a cheap pair on my 206 and they were only ok,

As for the new tyre law .... doesn't mean anything to me, i'll look at some online tyre reviews and then probably settle on a set of Goodyears, the Cupra has a set of Pirellis and they have been good.

 

[dave]

yoyo make a lot of diffrent types but ive only seen 2 rated good by people the t1r for road mild track and the 888 for track. the 888 are legal on the road but intended to be just for driving to the track day if you dont have room for 2 sets in the car.

do you look at online tyre reviews by real people or press?

 

[SteveTDCi]

I am going back to around 2005 with my bad experience with the toyo's, reviews, I look at both press - usually German and personal reviews

 

[Caravadossi]

And you've failed to grasp that no one competent is saying that the Toyo's are the nearest tyre in the wet

16484726374994938262561884847473937363838

Hardly – there’s evidence (#36) that was my point from the beginning.

Given the OP is looking for "Performance Tyres" – then prioritising other elements over wet grip doesn’t make a lot of sense. The wet grip variation is what more clearly distinguishes the good, the bad, & the ugly. ADAC give a 40% weighting to wet grip. Some (the unqualified & incompetent?) tend to view things a little differently – maybe 2% weighting for wet grip, 2% for fuel economy, 2% noise & 94% on price.

The EU seem intent on forcing poor tyres off the road by raising the standards over time. I believe the JATMA system in Japan is more tolerant. They take the view (if my understanding is right) that if a punter wants to buy poor quality, that’s up to them. But there are penalties if a tyre manufacturer falsely labels a tyre.

130425

 

[loveshandbags]

Given the OP is looking for "Performance Tyres" – then prioritising other elements over wet grip doesn’t make a lot of sense.

:yeahthat:

I had a nice response for Dave's last post but it timed out and lost it all -so I'm going to let the attachments do the 'talking'. That said the T1-Rin 15 inch has a 'C' Wet Braking score so it's OK compared with the scores given the poor E Wet Brake score on the 16 inch. T1-R is not keeping up with the newer more up-to-date designs particularly in the area of Aquaplaning. IMHO the T1-R is more suited a fun track car tyre. Pirelli have dismal scores in Aquaplaning despite having excellent Wet braking scores. Full report here (Google Chrome can be used and turn on the translation for German for those who are still in the dark ages ).

There has been a scramble by the manufactures to improve the EU label ratings scores for sales and Good year in a recent test had to change their tyre mid-test. In striving for a high Fuel efficiency rating it was not doing well - withdrew the tyre and replaced it with a Version 2 which did well. For those on a 'budget' the Semperit Speed-Life below is priced the same as the T1R and 'on paper' as an everyday tyre it appears to be a better bet. I have a set of Semperits on the Marea and TBH I only bought them but I was getting a cheap price at the time.

 

[The Twins]

Anyone tried Kuhmo Ecsta KU 31? They are cheap and seem to get good reviews.

 

[loveshandbags]

Anyone tried Kuhmo Ecsta KU 31? They are cheap and seem to get good reviews.

What reviews are you looking at ? Most of the ones that I've see they came last or bottom of the pile. But that may not have been in the 15 inch for the F500 size. Is it really worth saving £5-£10 per tyre for something that's poor in the wet ?

 

[dave]

that aquaplaning table is a bit misleading isn't it, it only gives make an not model

 

[loveshandbags]

that aquaplaning table is a bit misleading isn't it, it only gives make an not model

To get the full picture (& the rest of the tyre makes tested) a €1 has to paid here to get the full report. Interested from anyone in how one converts the German into English. PDF file is protected so the normal preferences option for international (English) don't work. It's a 2013 test in the size of 195 / 65 R15 (test results may differ in a 55). LH side is Dry and the RH side is Wet.

 

[dave]

its not worth paying €1 when the eu say there are no standardised testing methods anyone can be rigging tests to show what ever they like much like the emission tests for new car. i think i'll stick to first hand owner experience reviews

 

[loveshandbags]

Looking at owners reviews input on tyrereviews.co.uk plugging in the size of tyre...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre-Size/15-Inch-Tyres/185-55-15-Tyres.htm
A lot of the newer tyres are not listed. If you're going to resort to relying on owners inputs you might as well ask the tyre fitter. Re the non standardisation of tests to have them standardised might cost a bit more than a €1 for a download. Tests are subjective - it's not an exact science.

 

[dave]

never ask the tyre fitter ive only met a hand full that know any thing about tyres

 

[Caravadossi]

Where does the idea that the EU tyre label system is a non-standardised test come from?

The tyre label system was designed to provide a european standard such that whoever did the tests on a specific tyre would come out with the same result. The tests are subject to standards - either ISO or EU Regs (e.g. 228/2011). Taking the T1-R as an example, we know that the 195/50R15 has an E (1.10 ≤ G ≤ 1.24) rating for wet grip on the EU label – so any testing authority within any EU member state should find the same result. Further any testing authority that uses the same standard should find the same result – whether Japan, US, et al. I believe Japan also uses the EU 228/2011 standard. So it looks like we’re running towards an International standard.

130425

 

[dave]

Where does the idea that the EU tyre label system is a non-standardised test come from?



130425

the eu own website

 

[Caravadossi]

the eu own website

… & the supporting evidence? No doubt you’ll want to cite a reference (?)

Here’s one I prepared earlier …

http://www.etrma.org/uploads/Modules/Documentsmanager/20110309-commission-regulation-228-2011.pdf

Note words like `standards’ `mandatory’ `must be’ `binding’

130425

 

[dave]

… & the supporting evidence? No doubt you’ll want to cite a reference (?)

already posted above, post 101