Technical Parts Obsolete,!!
- Thread starter Toadie
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Technical Parts Obsolete,!!
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Engine size? 2.0jtd, or 2.3jtd? As intimated by @varesecrazy the 2.8jtd uses a flame starter device.
Please note that with motorhomes, the manufacturing year can be earlier than that of registration.
Coastal Motorhomes are good for older parts, but do not dismiss Ebay.
Commercial vehicles get rather more difficult to source spares for than cars, due to the number of variations. Without details of your vehicle, we can only guess, but from the pics, this one looks similar.
Don't forget, you can look at Peugeot and Citroen too.
HELLA Glow Plug Relay 5 PIN / Fiat Ducato Motorhome 1994 to 2002 2.5 Diesel | eBay
One Glow Plug Relay for Fiat Ducato 2.5 Diesel engines. Does not fit petrols or Diesel 1.9 or 2.8 Diesel engines. All versions of 2.5 Diesel from 1994 to 2002.
www.ebay.co.uk
Don't forget, you can look at Peugeot and Citroen too.
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Is that a typo? The 2.8jtd does not use glow plugs. Both the 2.8jtd, and the earlier 2.8idTD use a flame starter. It could be that the early 2000-2002 (x230) 2.8jtd used a different control system?
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Sorry to have to inform you that your MH is older than you thought. The 2.8jtd replaced the 2,8idTD in mid 2000.
As you may be aware there is a single glowplug and fuel injection device on the inlet manifold. On my later x244 2.8jtd control is by the ECU, with a large relay under a hood in the engine bay for the glowplug, and a smaller relay for the fuel solenoid valve in the engine bay fusebox.
What you are looking for may be a specialised device with limited application. If you can't find a new replacement, then perhaps a used item from Ebay?
Does your engine start without the flame starter? I don't think that I have had the flame starter operating on my 2.8jtd since new.
In a similar manner to @portland_bill , I am wondering if a standard glowplug controller would work, if no exact matches found. Perhaps with an additional switch to inhibit operation in warm temoeratures?
Here is another example.
For a description of the flame starter see here.
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Hi again,
So..your van doesnt run..in the middle of a UK summer
And you have doubts over its 'pre.heater'
I was under the impression it didnt have any effect above @5'c
I am wondering what you have tried..and ruled out ?
I think the owner needs to check under the bonnet and see if it actually has glowplugs. Or follow the wiring from that relay and see what they connect to.
If as described above, it only uses the flame starter, and no glowplugs, then why are we looking at a pic that seems identical to the Hella glowplug relay from an older 2.5?
If as described above, it only uses the flame starter, and no glowplugs, then why are we looking at a pic that seems identical to the Hella glowplug relay from an older 2.5?
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As the engine in question has been confirmed as a 2.8idTD, it will have a flame starter.devce, which embodies a special glowplug.
The same basic system is used on the succeding 2.8jtd, but which has an ECU and sensor to provide temperature sensing, and appropriate timing function. The 2.8idTD had only a simple ECU for the EGR option control.
Something is needed to provide the control function for the flame start device on the 2.8idTD. A standard glowplug control may help, but two stages are required for correct operation, as the glowplug needs to be hot before fuel is injected into the inlet manifold.
I also would not expect the flame start device to be initiated in a UK summer. I am wondering whether, that as the idTD will probably have lower injection pressures the jtd, fuel droplets will be larger. This would not improve cold starting performance. Perhaps @bugsymike has some views on this as he is/was a 2.8 owner?Hi again,
So..your van doesnt run..in the middle of a UK summer
And you have doubts over its 'pre.heater'
I was under the impression it didnt have any effect above @5'c
I am wondering what you have tried..and ruled out ?
Unless your problem starting is the relay inhibiting the engine starter powering up in which case I am sure a competent auto electrician can soon find a way around that, in which case certainly in the Summer you should never have need of that flame start relay. I have never had a problem with those older 2.8 cranking and firing, indeed the engine I took from a 1997 Fiat Ducato 2.8 Maxi 3.5 tonne van and fitted to a boat, even with ice around the gunnels in mid Winter would start after less than two revolutions of the engine and although the flame start device was fitted to the engine I never needed to wire it up, it always started without. I can't say about Siberian Winters , but in the middle of the Summer if engine cranking but not firing I would look in another direction for the cause. The ease of starting of all of the Sofim 2.5 and 2.8 engines from around 1995/6 and up to 2006 approx with all the latest controls, ECUs etc. some over 250K miles was never a problem.
Years ago I bought a Ford Transit Mk1 Perkins diesel van, with the similar flame start system cheap as the owner could never start, in fact the price I paid was less than the massive heavy duty battery he had bought for it. The cause of it's starting problem was on that model the fuel to feed the flame start came from the injector leak off/ return to the tank to a small reservoir on the bulkhead (not used on Ducato?) which gravity fed the flame start device, someone had replaced the plastic pipe with a longer one in a loop higher than the reservoir so it never got the fuel into the flame start for the heating element to ignite, I chopped a few inches of the pipe, refitted it and it started every time.
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@Toadie ,
Above is your initial post. It carries no mention of problems with the starter motor. Several of us have spent precious time trying to help with a flame starter problem, when the problem may be elsewhere.
By "solenoid" do you mean the flame starter controller as in your photos, and is "starter relay" refering to the sterter relay in the dash, or the solenoid that is integral with the starter motor.
I am attaching a diagram for the x230 Starting & Charging, but treat as a guide only.