Technical Panhard bar removal issue

[smahaley]

Having trouble removing the mounting bolt on the right (passenger) side for my 78 124 panhard bar. Bushings are all cracked and I’m seeking to replace them. Nut is off, the bar wiggles (left side is already free) but even with persuasion the bolt will not slide out - it is even bending the mount flange on the axle side under pressure.

Advice, oh sage ones? Thanks in advance!

 

[bugsymike]

View attachment 479527
Having trouble removing the mounting bolt on the right (passenger) side for my 78 124 panhard bar. Bushings are all cracked and I’m seeking to replace them. Nut is off, the bar wiggles (left side is already free) but even with persuasion the bolt will not slide out - it is even bending the mount flange on the axle side under pressure.

Advice, oh sage ones? Thanks in advance!

I suspect the inner steel part of the bush is rusted to the bolt.
If oiling and banging no good then carefully disc cut the the bolt either side of the bush with a thin blade so as not to damage the support bracket.
You could try supporting either side of the bolt head as you hit the threaded end (you may want to leave a nut on several threads to reduce damage assuming you hope it will come off).

 

[Slotman]

A little heat applied, propane or maps gas, and then some pb blaster might be something to try?

 

[smahaley]

A little heat applied, propane or maps gas, and then some pb blaster might be something to try?

Thanks folks - I busied myself with replacing bushings on trailing arms - first time I've done that. Went pretty well!

As for panhard bar: The bolt (curiously) does spin around in the housing. I've tried 'unscrewing' it, assuming maybe some threads deeper in were hung up on something, but that did nothing. I've shot it with PB blaster, have banged on it, but no joy. I'm going to do the time-tested method of 'waiting till tomorrow'. Then i may apply some heat as has been suggested, and then, last resort, attempt a cutoff...

 

[Slotman]

Try a bigger hammer I have a bronze hammer that's very heavy, and gives things a big smack with a lot of weight behind it, especially in short spaces, and has got me out of a lot of difficult situations that nothing else would...but just an idea, I agree the bushing might be rusted to the bolt?the mounting flange can easily be bent back but don't take it to the point that it's cracking..if the bushing is rusted to the bolt it's going to be a bear no matter what..waiting until tomorrow is a good thing too, so many times I've been frustrated, walked away, laid in bed sleepless, came up with something else to try, and fixed it the next day.if you cut it, I would try a sawsall just inside the flange next to the bolt head but if the bushing is stuck it's still a bear even with both sides of the bolt cut off

 

[jalopear]

Es mejor cortar el interior con una amoladora angular tratando de no dañar el alojamiento, luego afuera podrás quitarlo.

 

[Slotman]

Although I'm not quite sure how the above post relates to your issue, it's a pretty cool pic! Looking at your pic again, if you get to the cutting stage, I think I would I would yield my sawsall blade inside the flanges as close to the panhard bar as possible when cutting the bolt, cutting thru the rubber also...this would be to try and make as much open air space as possible for the bushing likely rusted on the remaining bolt part after you cut it...how ever wide the bushing is will determine how big of a gap you will need to hammer it out with a punch, it may require opening up (bending) one side of that flange to get it to fall out...but hopefully not...with both sides of the bolt cut hopefully it will just drop down...

 

[bugsymike]

Although I'm not quite sure how the above post relates to your issue, it's a pretty cool pic! Looking at your pic again, if you get to the cutting stage, I think I would I would yield my sawsall blade inside the flanges as close to the panhard bar as possible when cutting the bolt, cutting thru the rubber also...this would be to try and make as much open air space as possible for the bushing likely rusted on the remaining bolt part after you cut it...how ever wide the bushing is will determine how big of a gap you will need to hammer it out with a punch, it may require opening up (bending) one side of that flange to get it to fall out...but hopefully not...with both sides of the bolt cut hopefully it will just drop down...

Looking at the photo the flange is already bent out a bit so once sawn or cut through both sides within the mounting flange it should drop out.

 

[smahaley]

Es mejor cortar el interior con una amoladora angular tratando de no dañar el alojamiento, luego afuera podrás quitarlo.

Sorry I don’t speak Spanish, but have translated your post: “It is better to cut the inside with an angle grinder trying not to damage the housing, then outside you can remove it.”
Thanks for that suggestion!

 

[smahaley]

Aye okay:
1 - more PB blaster
2 - bigger hammer (which I have and have used!)
3 - cut something off with saws all or angle grinder.

I will report back!

 

[smahaley]

Okay - this is just a lovely view of the refurbished upper arms reinstalled with new bushings and a cleaned and reset diff. Now:

Results from more blaster and big hammer - the metal bushing has become one with the bolt, clearly. So I will ready my gear for cutting - although I don’t think my sawz all can get in there … so probably a couple of cutoff discs…

 

[bugsymike]

View attachment 479608Okay - this is just a lovely view of the refurbished upper arms reinstalled with new bushings and a cleaned and reset diff. Now:
View attachment 479609
Results from more blaster and big hammer - the metal bushing has become one with the bolt, clearly. So I will ready my gear for cutting - although I don’t think my sawz all can get in there … so probably a couple of cutoff discs…

Not the first bush I have seen do that. Plenty of grease on the replacement.
At least with all the banging there should be room for the disc cutter with thin blade.
Just a thought I have seen jubilee clips damage brake pipes like that, a bit of rubber tubing over it may help.

 

[smahaley]

Not the first bush I have seen do that. Plenty of grease on the replacement.
At least with all the banging there should be room for the disc cutter with thin blade.
Just a thought I have seen jubilee clips damage brake pipes like that, a bit of rubber tubing over it may help.

Thanks Bugsymike- yeah those clips were inherited with the vehicle. Thanks for the advice!

 

[smahaley]

Update: it came a loose! Patience and hammering back and forth (and with pry bar) finally separated the bolt from the barrel - they were indeed rusted together.

Have cleaned up the bar and removed the old bushings and will procure a new bolt …

Thanks!

 

[bugsymike]

Update: it came a loose! Patience and hammering back and forth (and with pry bar) finally separated the bolt from the barrel - they were indeed rusted together.

Have cleaned up the bar and removed the old bushings and will procure a new bolt …

Thanks!

That's good.
We had a saying about that "It took brute force and ignorance" to which I used to say yes, I supplied the brute force and ......?

 

[jalopear]

Perfecto, me alegro mucho, ahora a reparar como corresponde.

 

[smahaley]

Okay… so on the driver’s side, the bushing houses a larger gauge barrel - you can see my new bushing in, and the barrel next to it. I’m having a devil of a time trying to get that barrel in - using increasingly larger sockets to push through. I had to quit today because the last effort pushed the entire bushing out.
Is it possible that I have an incorrect bushing in place? Should it have a larger gauge hole to start with? TIA

 

[bugsymike]

View attachment 479727
Okay… so on the driver’s side, the bushing houses a larger gauge barrel - you can see my new bushing in, and the barrel next to it. I’m having a devil of a time trying to get that barrel in - using increasingly larger sockets to push through. I had to quit today because the last effort pushed the entire bushing out.
Is it possible that I have an incorrect bushing in place? Should it have a larger gauge hole to start with? TIA

Can you conmpare with the opposite side and take measurements?
Is it possible the arm is corroded /damaged internally. Can you check with a vernier gauge or similar?
I have often found pattern parts are not precise in their measurements.
Another think if it is almost correct is to put a lead taper on the new bush using a grind stone to help it start through the hole in the arm.
Often if a bush catches a little it quickly spreads and stops going in especially with a slow press, I use a fairly large hydraulic press and find steady continuous pressure plus a lead/taper on the new bush usually succeeds.

 

[smahaley]

Can you conmpare with the opposite side and take measurements?
Is it possible the arm is corroded /damaged internally. Can you check with a vernier gauge or similar?
I have often found pattern parts are not precise in their measurements.
Another think if it is almost correct is to put a lead taper on the new bush using a grind stone to help it start through the hole in the arm.
Often if a bush catches a little it quickly spreads and stops going in especially with a slow press, I use a fairly large hydraulic press and find steady continuous pressure plus a lead/taper on the new bush usually succeeds.

Thanks a ton @bugsymike - yes I measured both sides and there’s a significant difference - the passenger side takes a bolt (I’ll say “standard” size like on the longer trailing arms) whereas the drivers side has a welded mounting post that is of a larger diameter. I will perhaps try to find a tapered lead and go slow with it….

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks a ton @bugsymike - yes I measured both sides and there’s a significant difference - the passenger side takes a bolt (I’ll say “standard” size like on the longer trailing arms) whereas the drivers side has a welded mounting post that is of a larger diameter. I will perhaps try to find a tapered lead and go slow with it….

Is it possible the parts supplied are not to original specification?
I haven't used it, but are there any details on ePer etc?
Re the tapered lead it is more a case of if it looks about correct measurement then if you give it a slight tapered lead on the end of the bush using a grind stone or similar where you are pressing in, it can help.
I have also found some cheap pattern bushes have a thin metal wall on the out side that is more prone to crushing/collapsing than a good quality original specification bush. Not particularly on Fiat , but on many other makes of vehicle.