Technical panda rally car...ideas please

[sumouno]

im thinking of making a rally car out of my Kreg 750fire.

first of all is this a good idea?
also i was wondering what engine would be the best to run? i have a mk1 1.3 uno turbo engine, box ect, but dont want to over do the power to weight ratio (its for rallying not straight drags)

would the punto 1.2 engine be worth using or maybe the 1.4 out of my 70sx uno?

any tips would be much appreciated, not just on the engine but genaral tips on building a rally car.

i know the 4x4 would be a much better choice but its for 2wd class.

thanx, scott.

 

[Luke P]

Hello Scott,

First of all, the 4x4 wouldn't be a better choice... It's an off road gearbox rather than a high speed zooming about gearbox; driving it quickly with 4x4 switched on will knacker the transmission and it won't help traction wise... It's also heavier for no gain at speed.

I reckon any of the engines you mention will be ok... If it's a K-reg you should be able to bolt any FIRE engine in and the 1242 engines are a not uncommon upgrade. Without wishing to offend any Uno Turbo fans didn't those engines have a really mean laggy turbo that kicks when you aren't expecting it?? I think you might end up in a tree if you fit that one!

I'd be inclined to go 1242 8v and use that as a basis for modifying... Or track down a crashed Panda 100HP and take the engine out of that (see Kritips thread in the 'cento section.) I've got a 1242 16v engine that is being worked on this summer and it's about twice as expensive for bits as the 8v and harder to get real power gains... (didn't know this when I got the engine)

Anyway I'm sure you'll find loads of info on here and in the 'cento sections. Good luck and let us know how it goes!!

Luke.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

First of all, the 4x4 wouldn't be a better choice... It's an off road gearbox rather than a high speed zooming about gearbox; driving it quickly with 4x4 switched on will knacker the transmission and it won't help traction wise... It's also heavier for no gain at speed.

:yeahthat: and 4x4's are hard enough to find as it is!

 

[Hellcat]

Are you talking about real rallys? If so.. do your research.

1. Do you have enough money. Racing in almost all forms is expencive.

Find which rallys you'll want to enter. Download their suplimentry regs which are in adition to the rules in the blue book, and will determine what changes you will need to do to the car to be eligable. You could stick a UT in the front but then find the only groups you can drive with are class A highly modified.... and you'll finish last.. by a long way.

Not wanting to spoil your idea but there is a huge amount of prep goes into a rally car. It's not just sticking on big tyres and bribing a friend to sit along side you and read pace notes.

 

[sumouno]

moneys not an issue, rallying is 1 of my aims in life so really want to give this a go.

iv read a few threads talking about the 1242 8v engine, think this is the engine im going to settle with combined with a few upgrades including a competition head gasket lol.

i already have;

the panda
buckets and 4point harnesses
a rather willing friend (brother in law - mechanic)
a rollcage fabrication plan

i know theres a lot more to it than that, but its a start.

 

[Hellcat]

Stay in the relatively low cc groups to take advantage of your power/weight ratio.

 

[nitro_warrior]

:yeahthat:
Look at the racing groups and aim to start in the bottom. 2wd is defos the way to go, 4x4 would be a disaster as you would be immediatly competing against Imprezas and Evos. But even in the low groups it will be tough, I have a mate who rallies and his old 1.4 Nova put out around 150bhp.

As Hellcat says check the rules carefuly any engine swap may put you in group A, mods are ok.

You'll need a few things to start with like certified roll-cage, fuel tank, etc.
But defos not impossible, I was at the Colin Mcrae rally last year and I would of loved to have seen a Panda fly by, I reckon you would get a good cheer, would make a change from the normal stuff.

 

[sumouno]

I was at the Colin Mcrae rally last year and I would of loved to have seen a Panda fly by, I reckon you would get a good cheer, would make a change from the normal stuff.

1st or last, still a winner

 

[Crashtest33]

Hi mate!
Love the idea but definately do some research on which races you'll be applicable for.
eg. the 750 series or clubman 1400 would be fine, however if you wanted to do stage rallying, I don't even know if there's a series where you'd be competative with a 1.2 conversion, certainly in a Panda you'd have your watsits handed to you (would get very disheartening after a while).
btw. OMP make a 6-point bolt-in but as far as I know it isn't FIA certified which would leave you with a full weld-in. Just so you know I already have full quotes from Custom Cages, Fabricage and Safe Devices all for around £1100!
If you have that sort of money, honestly mate, find yourself a competative car.
p.s. Fiat Challenge don't accept Panda's either

Sorry to be negative, we just wanna save you a whole lot of wasted money.
Nick

 

[Chas Uno]

Without wishing to offend any Uno Turbo fans didn't those engines have a really mean laggy turbo that kicks when you aren't expecting it?? I think you might end up in a tree if you fit that one!

I know the 1242 FIRE engine has now been chosen, but no, a standard Uno Turbo engine isn't mean and laggy at all. It actually has a very driveable engine with loads of torque from around 2500rpm upwards. However, many owners upgrade to bigger/ hybrid turbos and massive intercoolers to get more power and these ARE laggy beasts!

The biggest problem with fitting the Uno Turbo engine to a classic Panda is weight. It's a heavy old lump, plus you need all the ancilleries that go with it to make it run. It has been done, but I reckon a 100bhp 1.4 Super FIRE engined Panda would be as quick, if not quicker, than a 105bhp mk1 Uno Turbo engined Panda round a race track. The lighter FIRE engine would make the car quicker round the corners due to less weight and better handling and the power to weight ratio would actually be better for the FIRE engined car. The only major advantage the turbo would have is torque, but that's no good when it makes you fight with the steering wheel as you try to stop the car going off the track!

 

[arc]

indeed, as has been found with the centos, sticking an Uno T lump in the front makes them quick in a straight line, but corner and brake badly. hence the 1.4 super FIRE in my cinq

 

[purple haze]

Wot a lovely cinq!!!!...The Abarth cinq i got my steering wheel from made me want one.....

kev

 

[arc]

thanks. It's nearly running with the 1.4 16v engine in it. If you want to have a look at the development thread it's here; https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/176286-my-1-4-16v-cinquecento-development-thread.html

[/hi-jack]

 

[purple haze]

Woooooo.....check it out i will!!!...

 

[Luke P]

I know the 1242 FIRE engine has now been chosen, but no, a standard Uno Turbo engine isn't mean and laggy at all. It actually has a very driveable engine with loads of torque from around 2500rpm upwards. However, many owners upgrade to bigger/ hybrid turbos and massive intercoolers to get more power and these ARE laggy beasts!

Thanks for putting me straight on that one, I've not actually driven one so I was going on what I've been told by obviously misinformed people... Hope I didn't cause any offence.

I hope I get the chance to drive one and find out for myself!!

Cheers, Luke.

 

[Hellcat]

Rallycross with a Sei.. You considered making the car eligable for rallycross too?

https://www.fiatforum.com/spamalot/185610-round-1-rallycross-croft.html?p=2002674

Won his class - Division 1A against a pack of Fiesta, Saxo VTS, Pug 106 XSi and a crazy little Lupo.

 

[quatermass]

I know the 1242 FIRE engine has now been chosen, but no, a standard Uno Turbo engine isn't mean and laggy at all. It actually has a very driveable engine with loads of torque from around 2500rpm upwards. However, many owners upgrade to bigger/ hybrid turbos and massive intercoolers to get more power and these ARE laggy beasts!

Thanks for putting me straight on that one, I've not actually driven one so I was going on what I've been told by obviously misinformed people... Hope I didn't cause any offence.

I hope I get the chance to drive one and find out for myself!!

Cheers, Luke.

Panda rally car, think first!!!!.
I think you would have to leave the 4x4 idea.But as a small light weight car goes then its not a bad idea, Formual 1000 (1000cc max engine)would be a good start so with a 999cc fire engine you would be on a good footing.If you were going any bigger you would be up against 1400cc 150+++bhp machines but if you are out for a bito fun then theres no problem.
Then theres an FIA spec cage that sould not be a problem ,then seats n harness. Im sure that harnesses are date stamped and will not be able to be used after 3years (im sure that seats may be going the same way, and suits and fire ext......it goes on) and seats have to be FIA stamped. The list goes on an on, its just another way of getting loadsa money out of your pocket but if its no problem then.
Have a look on the MSA site for all the ins n outs. Ive built may cars myself the last one being a Uno 1000cc (RIP rolled), im just saying that its more than throwning a cage in and havin a good thrash. Good look

 

[CLXCraig]

I cant remember the name but theres a 750 club who make grass track cars.. google it and you'll find them. Might be some helpful stuff on there

 

[Yazza54]

id go for a chevy ls7

 

[Hellcat]

I wouldn't entertain anything that runs on 93 octane fuel :yuck: