General Panda cross vs standard 4x4

[eshroom]

In the market for a used 4x4. Wondering (apart from the styling and slightly higher ride hight) what the main differences are and if the cross is worth the extra money?

I do plan to leave the tarmac, but don't intend to race Defender's across boggy fields.

 

[The Pretender]

In the market for a used 4x4. Wondering (apart from the styling and slightly higher ride hight) what the main differences are and if the cross is worth the extra money?

I do plan to leave the tarmac, but don't intend to race Defender's across boggy fields.

When you do plan to leave the tarmac, the choice would be simple.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Main differences that you can't replicate with 815 section tyres on a 4x4:

Approach and departure angles.

Hill descent control.

Copper trim that I think looks great but can definitely live without.

The looks.

Bragging rights.

If any of these are of great importance to you (I've caught my front bumper of the 4x4 on things more often than I'd like to admit, probably because I try to drive it where I shouldn't, but still can't justify the price difference personally), there's no significant difference. Even the ride height difference seems to be a result of the larger tyres and not a fundamental change in the chassis or suspension (though certain brochures quote unique suspension, and different versions of ePER the Fiat parts catalogue for service stations have different part numbers in some versions and the same part number in others so that's a bit up in the air for now).

 

[eshroom]

Thanks for the replies. I don't think I will need the front/rear clearance nor hill descent control. So off road traction with 815 section tyres will be identical with the Cross? If so, decision made.

The car will be going up and down a dirt track almost daily, but most cars can get up and down it most of the time as it is. Panda is just so I can nip up and down it instead of trying not to scrape the bottom, or worse if the road is washed out and getting up is tougher than usual.

 

[PandaIan]

Hi eshroom

Essentially it's down to your requirement for the 4x4 ability.

As I understand it in the normal 4x4, the 4x4 system does not engage until the front wheels lose traction and so the power is then distributed to the rear too.

In the Cross, there is the dial near the handbrake that allows you to put it straight into 4x4, negating the need for the fronts to lose traction first as mentioned above. Useful if you have a muddy bank ahead that you need to go up, but otherwise I can't see any other use for it.

Plus as previously stated, the Cross has a few extra mm in ride height due to bigger tyres and of course the Cross got most of the normal Panda 4x4 options as standard.

I've had my normal 4x4 T/A for over two years now and it's the best car I have ever had, just not had any snow yet to try it out :-(

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

As I understand it in the normal 4x4, the 4x4 system does not engage until the front wheels lose traction and so the power is then distributed to the rear too.

In the Cross, there is the dial near the handbrake that allows you to put it straight into 4x4, negating the need for the fronts to lose traction first as mentioned above. Useful if you have a muddy bank ahead that you need to go up, but otherwise I can't see any other use for it.(

Not quite...

The Cross has a dial, which has three settings. The first - 'auto' - does 'nothing', and is the same as the 4x4 model with no buttons pressed. As you say, in this mode, traction has to be lost (only for split second) to engage 4 wheel drive, and it will revert to 2WD as soon as it can.

The second setting, marked 'off road', has the same effect as pressing the 'ELD' button on the 4x4 (this forces 4x4 engagement and allows the ELD to operate if needed, but only up to 30mph. It also disables the ASR - part of the traction control system)

The third setting is unique to the Cross, which is the Hill Descent Control. However, the 4x4, especially with the diesel engine, has great hill-slowing potential when used in bottom gear with feet off all the pedals.

Ride height: the Cross sits 6mm higher, which is (as others have said) all because of the slightly taller tyres

Approach angles: the Cross's cut-away front bumper allows a (slightly) better approach angle, but I've never yet had an issue with my 'regular' 4x4 along Hertfordshire's green lane public byways.

The most expensive difference (which I don;t think others have mentioned yet) is the Cross has the full automatic climate control, as opposed to the 4x4's manual air con.

There is one more difference, this time in favour of the 4x4. The Cross has 'all season' but road-biased tyres (Goodyear Vector 4). The 4x4 has 'true' winter and off-road-rated tyres (better mud grip and - I believe - intended to be more durable off the tarmac: Continental CrossContact Winter). I have been surprised at how good these are all year round, and they last me 30,000 miles (replaced at 3mm to retain snow grip - which the past couple of weeks have shown to be phenomenal!)

Here was Fiat's own press release from the launch of the Cross: http://www.fiatpress.co.uk/press/article/the-new-fiat-panda-cross-a-car-like-no-other

 

[oyumurtaci]

Thanks for the replies. I don't think I will need the front/rear clearance nor hill descent control. So off road traction with 815 section tyres will be identical with the Cross? If so, decision made.

The car will be going up and down a dirt track almost daily, but most cars can get up and down it most of the time as it is. Panda is just so I can nip up and down it instead of trying not to scrape the bottom, or worse if the road is washed out and getting up is tougher than usual.

That was a typo on my part, 185 section (the 4x4 has 175 but the wheel arches can accommodate 185s, bringing the ride height to the same ground clearance as the Cross).

Also, the air-con/climate control difference depends on the market. In the UK I think climate control is either an optional extra on the 4x4 or not available, while it's standard on the Cross worldwide. On one hand, the climate control is nice to have in a 'set it and forget it' sort of way, but it's also one more piece of electronics that may go wonky over time.

 

[gar074]

On one hand, the climate control is nice to have in a 'set it and forget it' sort of way, but it's also one more piece of electronics that may go wonky over time.

It's always been rubbish on mine. "No fault found", of course.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I had climate in the Panda 100 and it performed faultlessly for 105000 miles. It is something I miss on the 4x4. It would be interesting to see what would happen in a joint test of std 4x4 and the Cross. I suspect there would be almost no difference in action apart from the already mentioned approach angle. I think its mainly a style thing and if you really like the Cross go for it. I think my Standard 4x4 is better than a Cross.
.....but its inverse snobbery really.

If your going second hand, the Cross makes a strong case for its self as it seems to lose more value in its first year or two due to the higher initial purchase cost. The std 4x4 is rather plain by comparison, or more of a Q car?

 

[Wrangler]

Get the Cross...all the bits of a 4x4 and a bit more and look better

 

[R1NGA]

Climate was optional on a stock 4x4 - I have it in mine. I'd personally NOT have Cross over my 4x4, as it's a little too 'shoutie' for me, but as a true Panda fan of course, both are utterly fabulous motoring cars.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Regarding climate vs regular air-con:

I like the climate control because it saves me from trying to find that sweet spot in the temperature dial of the regular air con. Naturally, that sweet spot also shifts based on engine and environmental temperature, and how long of a drive it will be, so basically in the fall and spring I'm spending half my time faffing about trying to get the cabin to a comfortable temperature. Similarly in the summer I'm blasting the A/C until I get cool enough, then need to fiddle with it until I find a balance. Ditto with winter and the heater. None of that needed with climate control.

That being said...

My previous Panda had the regular air con, and boy was that easy to fix. Bulb out behind the knobs? Yank them out and replace them, pop the knobs back on. Cable snapped for the control that directs air flow? Disassemble the dash, route new bicycle brake cable (a cheap and effective substitute for the original steel cables), adjust tension, crimp, replace dash. If the system isn't doing what it's supposed to (blow cold or hot), you can troubleshoot the problem with less variables than climate. On the climate control system you've got the control panel, the panel chip board behind it, the output signal system that runs the commands to the body computer and the air directing flap motors, the simple potentiometer behind the fan is replaced by switch buttons and a little chip, and there's the little EPROM chip behind the board that stores the last settings, and also it calculates the auto climate using the internal temperature sensor that's sourced from the utterly cheapest supplier in China, and then hidden inside the dash where it supposedly senses cabin temperature without being affected by wind and the sun and so forth (which, as a regular person sitting in the car, you definitely are influenced by, which means you always need to set it a few degrees colder than you think it should be in the summer).

With that rant out of the way, I'd still take a Cross over a 4x4 considering how little price difference there is between them in the used market in the UK. In fact, if I were to get one for myself, I'd get an out-of warranty car for cheap, get a set of front and rear bumpers off of a 4x4 from a breaker yard and paint them to match, install the 4x4 fog lights, cut out some holes in the bumpers for quick-release latches so that I can swap them out when I want to go drive places I'm not really supposed to, and probably disappear into a money pit of modifications on this FrankenPanda to take it to the extremes on both ends of the spectrum: a lifted off road toy on one end, a lowered hot hatch on the other. I'd probably spend more than the car is worth on mods (air suspension etc), my wife would leave me, the bank would come to collect and I'd have to live out of a little 4x4 city hatchback and do menial odd jobs to afford fuel and food.

Wow, I really took that further than was necessary.

 

[pasotibbs]

The 60/40 rear seat is std on the Cross but option on 4x4 (and the 5th seat belt ?)
We were looking for a used 4x4 with aircon and 60/40 seat because the 500 has neither and the car it was to replace had both, but could not find any.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The 60/40 rear seat is std on the Cross but option on 4x4 (and the 5th seat belt ?)
We were looking for a used 4x4 with aircon and 60/40 seat because the 500 has neither and the car it was to replace had both, but could not find any.

Yes the 5th seat belt is also optional. Mine aint got either but this saved me £400 on the deal even though list price of these bits is less than this.