HI. I hope this is ok to post here. I'm looking for any advice you guys can give. I want to buy a used Panda Cross and have to decide between the petrol and the multi jet diesel. Anyone out there with experience of both as to which is the better one to buy please? Go easy on me - I'm a sensitive soul ... lol.
General Panda Cross - diesel or petrol?
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General Panda Cross - diesel or petrol?
I can give you a biased reply - as I have a 4x4 MultiJet and two previous ones too.
There's a lot of 'it depends' comments here. Also, this all assumes you mean a 4x4 Cross (the only model that was available with the diesel). Not all Crosses are 4x4...
Only diesel Pandas after later 2017 meet Euro 6 emissions standards, which means anything older is subject to things like the London ULEZ charge, which other cities are likely to introduce at some point. (Diesels which meet Euro6 and for petrol the older Euro4 standards – which any version of the TwinAir does – are exempt). Vehicle Excise Duty ('tax disc') varies depending on the year, but there's not much in it and equates to about £12 a month for either car.
The diesel will offer much greater fuel economy (easily 55 mpg, and 60 without effort, compared to the TwinAir being nearer 35-40 unless very careful), but that's offset by the added prices (at present) of diesel fuel.
If you won't be making frequent long-ish journeys, the diesel particulate trap will suffer. Ideally a main road run of 40 miles plus at least once a week is needed. If it's all town driving, TwinAir definitely better. (But if all Town Driving, then why a 4x4...)
The diesel has a lot more torque and at lower revs, so is a better off-road option. The TwinAir is (based on views of others, as I've not driven one) tricky around town with its extra-low first gear (to compensate for the lower torque figure). The petrol Cross 4x4 has six gears, but by adding a very low one at the bottom of the gearbox. The top three gears are the same on both engines. At motorway speeds both are doing about the same revs (although 2800 rpm is 'high' for a diesel).
The diesel weighs a bit more (100kg+ extra) but has longer service intervals with fewer parts to be changed. Not a lot in it in on overall service costs though. Anecdotally the TwinAir is very fussy about being serviced correctly (a 'basic' garage may not be aware of some of the extra things needing attention on this unique engine) and with very specific oil requirements. The diesel is a little less fussy here, but eividence of regular oil changes is good news for its timing chain.
Although diesels got a bad press, they still have lower carbon emissions than a petrol. Small turbo petrol engines also have emissions of NOx, but the diesel can generate more particulates (the trap should prevent most of these escaping though). My eco-conscious view is that for my driving requirements, the diesel is a least bad option. (The reason for Fiat dropping both the diesel and the TwinAir from the latest Pandas is because neither engine turned out to be 'green' in the more stringent WLTP emissions tests...)
Stand by for counter arguments and a debate...
There's a lot of 'it depends' comments here. Also, this all assumes you mean a 4x4 Cross (the only model that was available with the diesel). Not all Crosses are 4x4...
Only diesel Pandas after later 2017 meet Euro 6 emissions standards, which means anything older is subject to things like the London ULEZ charge, which other cities are likely to introduce at some point. (Diesels which meet Euro6 and for petrol the older Euro4 standards – which any version of the TwinAir does – are exempt). Vehicle Excise Duty ('tax disc') varies depending on the year, but there's not much in it and equates to about £12 a month for either car.
The diesel will offer much greater fuel economy (easily 55 mpg, and 60 without effort, compared to the TwinAir being nearer 35-40 unless very careful), but that's offset by the added prices (at present) of diesel fuel.
If you won't be making frequent long-ish journeys, the diesel particulate trap will suffer. Ideally a main road run of 40 miles plus at least once a week is needed. If it's all town driving, TwinAir definitely better. (But if all Town Driving, then why a 4x4...)
The diesel has a lot more torque and at lower revs, so is a better off-road option. The TwinAir is (based on views of others, as I've not driven one) tricky around town with its extra-low first gear (to compensate for the lower torque figure). The petrol Cross 4x4 has six gears, but by adding a very low one at the bottom of the gearbox. The top three gears are the same on both engines. At motorway speeds both are doing about the same revs (although 2800 rpm is 'high' for a diesel).
The diesel weighs a bit more (100kg+ extra) but has longer service intervals with fewer parts to be changed. Not a lot in it in on overall service costs though. Anecdotally the TwinAir is very fussy about being serviced correctly (a 'basic' garage may not be aware of some of the extra things needing attention on this unique engine) and with very specific oil requirements. The diesel is a little less fussy here, but eividence of regular oil changes is good news for its timing chain.
Although diesels got a bad press, they still have lower carbon emissions than a petrol. Small turbo petrol engines also have emissions of NOx, but the diesel can generate more particulates (the trap should prevent most of these escaping though). My eco-conscious view is that for my driving requirements, the diesel is a least bad option. (The reason for Fiat dropping both the diesel and the TwinAir from the latest Pandas is because neither engine turned out to be 'green' in the more stringent WLTP emissions tests...)
Stand by for counter arguments and a debate...
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Thank you. Yup I meant the 4x4 Cross and your answers are why I'm leaning towards the diesel. I appreciate your reply - it's people like yourself who have had - and still have - one that I needed confirmation from. Cheers.
One other comment: the diesels are quite rare, so tend to have a premium price tag. If the option is there, find one with the winter pack (heated sets, but more usefully the heated front screen), as the engine can be a little slow at making heat. I have that on mine and its a very useful extra.
Bonefish Blues
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Unless you really want the Cross styling, remember that the regular 4x4 offers everything the Cross does at a notably lower price (bar the hill descent)
I made the same choice as HH above, have nothing to add to that comprehensive reply BTW!
I made the same choice as HH above, have nothing to add to that comprehensive reply BTW!
Actually, you have added an important point there... the non-Cross 4x4s are a lot cheaper and just as capable off-road (uphill at least!). When new the Cross was £1500 more than the 'regular' 4x4. That extra paid for auto-climate control (I can manage to turn the dials myself), a split rear seat (not a problem - I fill the whole back of the car with logs anyway), hill descent control (less of a need with the diesel's good engine braking) and two extra airbags (in the sides of the seats). I have waterproof covers on my front seats which you shouldn't use where side airbags are fitted). So yes, look at the regular 4x4s too.
Pete
Thanks everyone. Just another point - a garage are telling me this is a Cross. I'm not convinced - the body panels just say 4x4. Am I wrong? https://www.stoneacre.co.uk/used-cars/fiat/panda/cross-4x4/1-3-multijet-95-cross-4x4-5dr-wm18khu
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That is ‘just’ a 4x4. However, its registration documents probably say Panda MultiJet Cross - mine does too! When a car’s registered by the dealer they select the model from a drop-down list in the DVLA database, and it seems the diesel only offered Cross as an option for the 2018 cars. I’ve never bothered to change it. The insurance company’s look-up list shows it correctly
Sure I only paid £13500 for mine new in August 2018 (although it was ‘pre-registered’ with just 4 miles on the clock.
Sure I only paid £13500 for mine new in August 2018 (although it was ‘pre-registered’ with just 4 miles on the clock.
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Thank you.That is ‘just’ a 4x4. However, its registration documents probably say Panda MultiJet Cross - mine does too! When a car’s registered by the dealer they select the model from a drop-down list in the DVLA database, and it seems the diesel only offered Cross as an option for the 2018 cars. I’ve never bothered to change it. The insurance company’s look-up list shows it correctly
Sure I only paid £13500 for mine new in August 2018 (although it was ‘pre-registered’ with just 4 miles on the clock.
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And for balance (and opposite bias...) I have a 63 plate 4x4 twinair (TA). I can't speak for the Cross (differences) although personally I don't like the (Cross) styling. The TA has its quirks but for me the engine is quite remarkable for the power it generates and the way it delivers it. One important thing is that the service history seems quite important (regular, correct grade, oil changes especially) since the Uniair unit that controls the variable valve timing uses the engine oil to actuate the valves. In this respect the diesel may be more robust in that it is older well established technology. The other consideration is the actual fuel consumption which is, in my experience lower than the original lab test numbers, but then aren't they all? My vehicle tax is just £30 per year (the 4x4 goes just over the 100g CO2 limit). As stated it is allowed to venture into any ULEZ which is becoming a significant consideration these days.
Engine aside, the rest of the vehicle is pretty similar apart from the different trim levels.
One thing I did find was that the 4x4 TA was relatively cheap to insure for my daughter as she learned to drive (aged 18 then).
Also if the car you identify has a relatively old battery expect to have to replace this since low battery voltage will start to throw up random sensor and actuator errors.
Don't expect the stop/start to work - this is not necessarily a mechanical fault more the effect of low battery volts and the associated voltage sensor.
Good luck, the second-hand market is pretty buoyant at the moment.
Thank you.
Bonefish Blues
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True this. Never truer, in fact. Seems a fierce amount of money for a 5 yo Panda, but there again, I was looking at the murkier end of the market, so I never raised my head to that end of the market!
Just thought I'd stick my '4 pennuth' in discussion.
I've got a Panda Trekking 95 2016 diesel- Euro6 compliant. Fitted with M&S tyres with electronic button for 'off road' use. Road tax is 0, yes zero and with 95 BHP has plent of grunt. Gets 65+mpg but as commented below need to do a regulat high speed run every other month to keep egr happy. In town why 4x4?
