Technical P0480-13 l4h2 3.0 ducato x250

[Ermie571]

Hi guys need your help again. The Van running the cooling fan constantly from ignition on. Not overheating or runni g cool. EML light comes on with ignition stage onr, then goes off on firing then comes back on. The fan either starts immediately or within a, second or two.

There is a reduction in power too, especially going uphill. Had to do a hill. That she will normally climb in on 4th at 40 on 3rd...held 30 mph. Gets there but a slow plod.

Interestingly the Change gear notification on dash not showing.

I've Taken it to a mate with a snap on reader and got the following...

Attached video of fan running. I think it's the one on the right as you look into the engine.

Thanks for any help

Emma

 

[Anthony489]

Hi Emma

I attach a description and schematic of the engine cooling fans for an X250 without Air Conditioning. If A/C is fitted the setup is similar, but Fan 1 (low speed) has an additional reduced speed mode with an extra resistor and relay. Fan 1 (N011) is on the right as you stand looking at the engine.

It sounds as though your engine has been placed in restricted power mode as a precaution, which may explain the lack of gearshift indicator.

A generic error code P0480 indicates a problem with the Fan 1 control circuit. The specific meaning(s) of P0480-13 for a Ducato are probably known only to Fiat, and may indicate a number of other problems in this area.

As you will see from the diagrams, each Fan is turned on via its own relay. The coils of these relays are energised when a logic "low" appears at the output pin of the Engine Management Control Unit (ECU) M010. If the line is low when it shouldn't be, the Relay coil will be energised, the contacts will close and the fan will run. Possible causes include a faulty temperature sensor K036 (the ECU thinks the engine is too hot even though it isn't), a fault in the ECU or a short to ground in the wiring between ECU and Relay. The fact that the Fan doesn't cut in straight away would tend to discount a short in the wiring.

As far as I know, K036 is the only coolant temperature sensor and is also used to drive the dashboard temperature gauge. If this is reading OK it suggests that the sensor itself is OK.

If your van has A/C, it's possible that this is demanding Fan 1 to be turned on all the time due to a fault.

 

[Ermie571]

Thankyou so much for this information, and so clearly written.

**stupid question alert... If my van has a option for selecting the temperature... I have air conditioning, right? **

It's never blown cool.... I wonder if it needs re-gassing...??


I will look properly on my pc later at the attachments... Although I'm not confident with wiring diagrams!

What I wondered... Could the relay have failed? And if it has, would it fail so that the fan always runs?

Emma

 

[Anthony489]

Hi again.

It is rare but not impossible for a relay to fail with its contacts shorted together. This would cause the fan to run, but since the supply to the relay contacts comes almost directly from the battery the fan would run all the time i.e. even with the key out of the ignition. So I don't think that is your problem.

If you can select a cab temperature as a number e.g. 21 degrees, you have automatic air conditioning. If you just have a button with a snowflake symbol and an orange light when you press it, you have manual air conditioning. If you only select temperature with a knob marked with red and blue stripes round it and have no snowflake button, you don't have air conditioning.

The air conditioning has a gas pressure sensor, so if it has too little gas it prevents the compressor in the engine bay from being activated. It will also log a fault code that can be read. It's possible that if you have A/C that needs re-gassing that it could be causing your engine cooling fan problem, but I think that's rather unlikely.

One last thought. As I mentioned before, the Low speed fan actually has two speeds when A/C is fitted. The speed can be reduced by switching in a power resistor ("engine fan adjustment resistance") with an extra relay J028. If this power resistor fails, you will lose the "very low speed" setting. It's possible that the ECU can detect this fault and turn the fan onto low speed all the time as a precaution. I attach another diagram which covers the fan setup with A/C fitted. The resistor is marked O 010. It's mounted in the engine compartment, probably within the shroud of the Low Speed fan so that air blows over it.

 

[Ermie571]

Thanks again for such a complete and detailed response. Will be good to pass on to auto electrician

Regards

Emma

 

[Ermie571]

Hi again,

So, using your Relay diagrams I have found the engine bay fuse box. Haven't managed to open it though. Need a closer look but sure I will get there.

Having read all your information from the beginning, I'm not sure that a "likely" situation has presented itself. The only thing I can add was that the fault was intermittent for a couple of weeks... Prob less than 100 miles driving, and was first noticed after a sharp frost. But the fan only ran for a couple of minutes then switched off. So whatever was calling for them decided against it. This morning it was 3 secs from starting the van to fan coming on... Although the eml came on immediately.

Is the best place to start an auto electrician? Or do I get the air con regassed... I'm going to need it at some point and it would be good to know its working. I don't think there is anything I can do. I suppose I could pull the fuse out for it and see if that stops the fan running if that would be useful?

Once again, thanks. These vehicles are so much more complicated than my 1980s camper!

Emma

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

The cover for the engine bay fusebox is held down by 4 (?) bolts. Once these are out, you can wriggle it past the cable for the bonnet release. If you remove the Fuse for Fan 1 it will certainly stop it running, but the fault indication and reduced power will of course remain.

I'd suggest getting the Fan fault fixed before checking out the A/C. It's possible the A/C will start working once the Fan fault is sorted. As for using an auto electrician, it depends how familiar they are with these vehicles. No point paying half the hourly rate of a Fiat dealer if it takes them three times as long. Only you can weigh up what's best.

 

[Ermie571]

Thankyou again. Have a couple of fiat places to ring in the morning.

Emma

 

[Ermie571]

Hi Anthony, just thought I'd post a little update. Phoned the local. Fiat specialist this morning. It was in in 2019 for the very same fault... They found and soldered a broken wire from the ecu. It's back on Thursday to check if its the same repair. Fingers crossed!

 

[Juedu2]

Hi Emma is there a conclusion to this.my boxer has the same code, low speed fan was dead. Replaced the fan but the elm is on immediately on startup.