General Opinion please - Buying a late Ducato

[friend of stouby]

Decided it's time to replace our older Ducato, a 2006 Maxi 2.8 JTD (just before the new shape) and looking for advice on which later model to go for.

Our usage is really what our old van was designed for, more than adequate volume with standard high roof being important, very good payload as we carry heavy items but not many of them, great cruising comfort as our journeys are longer motorway ones through near European countries and the UK. Economy comes after cruising comfort but only just.

I see the later van wheel bases are either shorter or longer than the old Ducato, so I guess that maybe the L2 or mor eprobably the L3 are the ones to go for, a standard high roof (H2) is a must due to height barriers in Europe.

I see there was an update in 2011? and assume? that these were improvements? Are the differences to pre and post 2011 signicant enough to want to buy the newer van and spend more money?

Can't afford a new van so it has to be 2010, 2011 or 2012.

As to engine power then I think it's between the two 2.3 engines at 130 bhp and 150 bhp. We often travel loaded to our weight capacity and do need the abiltiy to climb decent hills without slowing down, speed is not the main thing though as we travel well within speed limits but we often travel on heavy truck routes and do like to be able to overtake the most powerful trucks uphill.

I'm not sure if the 130 bhp is man enough for this as the torque figures are ok but of course there are better. Also see that official figures give the same fuel consumption for both engine outputs.

Haven't considered the 3.0 ltr engine as feel it may cost too much to run in all respects, but don't jnow why i should think that.

So this is so long but wanted to put all the points I could think of. Any views at all will be gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[philgunn]

do not discount the 3.0 engine , it is chain driven as against the chain in the engines you have mentioned ,
I have 300'000 Km on mine about 190000 miles and the torque is fab, if i drive around 60 Mph or less i can get over 640 miles to a full tank (90 lt)
Still on the same clutch , there is a bit of judder when reversing as mentioned else where

 

[moodrater]

If you travel loaded to capacity then the 3.0 will probaby return the same/better mpg and be a nicer drive.

 

[friend of stouby]

Are there any good or bad opinions on either the 130 or 150 bhp engine?

And what about the cost for going for a later current spec van as against one up until 2010?

Thanks all

 

[rolopolo]

I bought a 130 last sept, euro 5, L4h2 after 25,000 I sold it and bought a 3.0 180bhp same L4H2, now at 56,000 miles and returning minimum 38mpg (60-75mph motorway runs) as opposed to 30-31mpg in the 130bhp doing 55-60mph runs, load ranged from 500kg up to 1000kg,
(Also had cruise retrofitted by Rhino installs and remap at super chips Buckingham)(retains better mpg when loaded) more than worth the extra ££ in the long run choosing the 3.0

 

[adlarplant]

ive got the 2011 mwb low roof with the 2.3 motor well over 500000kms over 3 tonne all up fitted a steinbauer chip and havent looked back the top 3 gears are all overdriven so you have to keep it spinning but im used to it cheers adam

 

[tommytopgun]

be aware of bottom end knocks,
I brought mine as a none runner with around 173,000 miles on the clock. Once I got the engine running there was a awful knock, and not long after the bigend went through the crankcase, had to replace the engine after that, but now runs sweet as a nut.

 

[friend of stouby]

What spec is your van TTG?

 

[tommytopgun]

Its a 2.2 multijet 100, 5 speed gearbox.

 

[friend of stouby]

There's great enthusiasm for the 3 litre engine, and can see why too, but has anybody used a 150 BHP 2.3 litre engine in anger? Or know something about it maybe?

Thanks

 

[friend of stouby]

rolopolo

Something that's been bothering me is the sometimes fragile gearbox. My thinking is the more torque put through it ( the 3.0 engine) the more chance of a failure?

I've had 3 Ducatos now and one with a gearbox failure on a 2.8 JTD, but two were ok. All over 100,000 miles.

Any view on that as I am getting very close to placing an order.

Thanks

 

[rolopolo]

Can't really comment on gearbox issues, as I've never had any, my 2007 120hp did over 230,000 miles with only a clutch replaced at 170,000. I'm on 61,000 in my current van (no issues, touch wood) my mates done 120,000 in his 3.0 180hp (tuning mod box fitted (not advisable) again no issues on box, his only issue has been a lamda/dpf sensor I believe.
Heard stories on the old 160 of clutches going early, I would say its down to how it's driven. My view is with the 3.0 180hp is you dong need to drive it hard, 70 mph is approx 2200rpm, my old 120 was 3000rpm @ 70 mph and its very rare I exceed 70. Or rev it hard when accelerating (odd occasional time showing up the chavs in their Kev'd up Corsas from the lights maybe

Anyone else any comments on the gearbox's??

 

[rolopolo]

On the 150 question, I was told by autoworld chesterfield that the 150bhp is the same as the 130 just running a different map. Although underneath bonnet all is the same but hoses have 150 printed on them, maybe they are different for more cooling, but the 20 mile ish test I did was no different in feel & mpg than the 130, these were brand new engines though and in time once bedded in there may be a difference,
Mine has settled down (bedded in after 45,000, since then the economy has gone up 2-3mpg for the better)

I don't trust autoworld though after the info I was told & shown on the 130 I bought last sept, as it was way off what it should have been.

Also fiat advertise these new multijet 11 engines (euro 5) as being on 30,000 serv intervals. They are not, still on 28,000 so be carefully as if you go over it could cause warranty issues

 

[rolopolo]

The 2.2 engine is a ford supplied engine, and they are prone to more issues like bottom crank pulleys falling off & failing as well as knocking bottom end, whereas the 2.3 and 3.0 are Iveco supplied engines and are a stronger engine, don't compare any 2.2 models with a 2.3 or 3.0 when it comes to engine issues
They are all however working vans most of the time, some drive hard some not, any van/engine can have faults and they all do no matter who makes them

 

[friend of stouby]

rolopolo I really appreciate your views, in particular as you are doing so many miles in your van(s) and have owned various models.

The best deal I have at the moment is from Autoworld Chesterfield but only via phone and email as I am working in France this summer and having to arrange a purchase at a distance (not ideal I know).

Haven't even seen inside the current model except for brochure photos, but not been disappointed in any of my previous Ducatos so working on the basis will be happy with this one too.

You mentioned you had your engine chipped, doesn't that invalidate the warranty?

Taking advantage of your help, what 2 options have you found the most useful or the most useless?

I considered a 120L fuel tank as we are in and out of the UK - France in the main with the diesel price differences, but not sure if they locate the larger fuel tank in the same location as the original and that would bother me it it were moved to one side as it may reduce ground clearance.

Last. I understand there are deadlocks fitted to all new vehicles, are they operated electronically? Had 2 break-ins on my current van (1 in the UK in a very nice area and 1 in France at a motorway services during the day) where they have used a screwdriver to smash the door lock, wondered if it were possible to smash the deadlock mechanism as easily.

Thanks again, it's all a big help.

 

[rolopolo]

Re the two options, my view is your only delaying another fill up with the larger tank, but euro driving may help as stations may be further apart than uk, dead locks, you press the lock button on remote twice to deadlock, good addition as i was broken into on 1st van.
The options I won't miss out on, are air con, cruise, and wish I had the 270 rear doors,

Re autoworld, just be careful, they advertise vans and often don't have what you want in, best plan is, you have a couple of months, is to spec your own van, use the fiat website I think they have a build your own van tool. Then order it from that hence the two month build time, I ended up haggling as the only L4 H2 3.0 in white with air con had extras like Tom Tom mount, traction +, so was more £ than should be, I couldn't wait two months. Silly things like, the outside temp showing on dash, was told all 3.0 versions have it, mine doesn't, do your homework before parting with your ££,
Superchips, many main dealers use them, we used to at Peugeot in Harrogate. The only way the manufacturer can know is by taking the ecu back to manufacturer and reading it. Whereas the plug in chip/tuning box's are visible, again it's up to you, if your happy with bucket loads of power avail and the mpg return, then leave as std,

 

[friend of stouby]

rolopolo that's fabulous, can't thank you enough for your help.

Had intended to spec my own van as have a couple of specifics that probably wouldn't be asked for too often.

We use 2 individual seats not the double bench seat and don't use a bulkhead as want access from the cab. Also want a passenger airbag.

The reason for maybe a larger tank is the cost of diesel in France is 15-20% cheaper than the UK, the extra 35 litres each trip makes a saving but probably not enough to warrant the extra cost of the larger tank.

Anyway, Autoworld wont have a van available with that spec so am prepared to wait on a factory order, although they did try to sell me one already on site under the premise that near enough was good enough. To be fair they didn't push it too hard.

Unlike you I don't like aircon although I see some of the advantages of it, but cruise control is becoming more of a must for me as time on the road is becoming less frequent but longer journeys (3 -5 continuous days).

Thanks again, I'll post again if anything of interest to others when I have the ordering in place.

 

[rolopolo]

No probs mate

 

[moodrater]

120L OF diesel at french prices is a saving of £10 hardly worth thinking about, deadlocks are great until you lose the key or they malfunction, remember they can always whip off your skylight or smash a window if they can't open the door. Or with a motorhome rip off a door or window which is more costly than anything they'll take.

 

[BGD]

ive got the 2011 mwb low roof with the 2.3 motor well over 500000kms over 3 tonne all up fitted a steinbauer chip and havent looked back the top 3 gears are all overdriven so you have to keep it spinning but im used to it cheers adam

Sorry, I don't understand your post saying that "the top 3 gears are "overdriven".
My understanding is that "overdriven" is when the gear cog in use multiplies the drive from the engine by more than 1-to-1.
Such a very very "long" gear ratio is sometimes used by designers as the top gear, but is never on any lower gear ratio.
Have I misunderstood your meaning?