Technical Not so elegant Eleganza

[George Baker]

I was bowling down the M6 a month ago (1.9 Eleganza JTD) with some 250 miles on the clock when 'beep' and up comes the disconcerting dashboard display message 'Engine control faulty - contact garage'. Power loss and glowing warning light somewhat alarming on a brand new car. Limped in to Liverpool where dealer diagnosed 'Particulate regeneration - clogged filter' and apparently fixed things. Some 600 miles later, a repeat performance. A different dealer connected his box of tricks and received a 'no error' message. Clearly, the car's performance and the warning message/light on the dashboard meant that there was an error - so computer's dont' lie, then ! The box of tricks did manage to wipe the info off the in-car computer so that the dealer was unable to resurrect the original message and he tried to replicate the problem by various means ( bench test, road test etc) but to no avail. He is at a loss to explain how to sort this out, suggesting that I could simply run the car until the fault occurs again ( which would be huge fun if I happened to be on my planned trip to the Highlands). The M6 incident was bad enough - in the middle lane, overtaking a long convoy of HGVs when the power fell away - and I'm inclined to say to Mr Fiat " this car is unreliable..no-one knows how to fix it because the computer says there is no error....here's the keys ". OK, so I'm a grumpy old man, but I've parted with a large sum of hard-earned money for something that doesn't 'do what it says on the tin'. Has anyone got any suggestions as to what I can do to persuade the dealer that the diagnostic procedure must be as unreliable as he car
George Baker

 

[Falcon_II]

I would Take it back Say i am even thinking about a refund and try to get a small upgrade if i were you for 1 the inconvinece and two the fact that there is a problem with a brand new car. let them deal with the problem. and dont take no for an answer you want a new car. its your right to demand a new car if the car you have has had any fault that makes it unable to be used as intended. eg driven safley.

 

[George Baker]

Thanks for your comments. I believe that I have to give the dealer a chance to repair thecar, but if they don't know what the fault is, then they've had their chance, I guess

 

[T14086]

I would ask dealer to carry out forced PDF regeneration process if clogged mesage was there.

 

[George Baker]

Dealer is initially assuming that the current problem is the same as the first - i.e. 'clogged filter' and is 'taking it from there'. However, if that is not the problem and the computer continues to indicate 'no error' it could take for ever to track down the true cause. I'm not inclined to take the car back and run it until the fault message returns - I could be causing some damage ?

 

[George Baker]

Latest on this saga: Thought we'd cracked it today - Dealer advised by Fiat to fit replacement particulate filter (£1200) and is prepared to do this but within an hour or so Fiat change their tune and tell dealer that it's a software problem - but, they don't seem to be able to supply the appropriate replacement software ( is it even written yet ?).
Dealer says OK to drive the car in the meantime but I'm not happy about that - driving around with an unresolved fault which could involve power loss ? I don't think so. No clue given as to when this elusive software might appear - 6 days? 6 weeks? 6 months ? Sales people say Fiat 'don't do that' when I said that they should supply a replacement car until they have got this mess sorted. So, brand new car that I can't use and with Fiat's customer relations promising to get back to me tomorrow am with some news - but we've all heard those sorts of promises before

 

[Ozzie1989]

Oh dear, well keep putting your foot down for another car until they sort it out, at least you'll have something to drive that you know won't conk out

Hope they get back to you too, it'll be a positive thing for Fiat!

 

[George Baker]

11.00 am and no word from Fiat (surprise, surprise) but I've since been advised that dealers are not legally obliged to offer 'courtesy' vehicles whilst awaiting repair but I am entitled to reject the car and seek a full refund - I think that I'll give that tactic a whirl. Thanks for your support !

 

[George Baker]

Success (of a kind). Dealer has supplied a loan car 'like for like' until mine is fixed but since Fiat don't know what the problem is "until" could be a long time. I've suggested 14 days and if no solution found I'm looking at a rejection situation. Fair enough ?

 

[T14086]

If you provide more details of the fault (any error codes) we might be able to help

 

[George Baker]

I never discovered what the error code was. Dealer says that although the warning message and light were displayed on the dashboard, when they plugged in the diagnostic gear there was a flashed message 'no error' and everything was wiped. They tried to get the error to come back but without success; howevr, they agree that there is a problem and until it is located, the warning message will come back from time to time and I will also experience loss of power every time as engine goes into 'shut-down' mode. Does that make sense ? I'm only quoting what they tell me and I'm a complete duffer when it come to understanding what goes on under the bonnet !

 

[Ozzie1989]

That's not what you want though your engine shutting down, you need a car to be reliable!

Keep to your original plan, keep the courtesy car for 14 days and if it's still not fixed do your rejection thing

Then find yourself another dealer, and buy another one or say just give me a new one and you can keep that one and sell it on

 

[T14086]

I never discovered what the error code was. Dealer says that although the warning message and light were displayed on the dashboard, when they plugged in the diagnostic gear there was a flashed message 'no error' and everything was wiped. They tried to get the error to come back but without success;

Is it a Fiat dealer with examiner diag equipment you have been to? All the information is automatically stored on the harddrive!!!!!!

 

[Ozzie1989]

Perhaps part of the problem was the computer it'self, unless it had somehow become damaged and wiped or it was just malfunctioning... highly unlikely though I suppose

 

[T14086]

All applications are stored automatically in the archieve section.Codes dont just flash up anyway,they are displayed with a list of parameters at the time of fault (speed/rpm/temp/air flow etc) which is why I prefer examiner to generic code readers which just display a number.

 

[George Baker]

It is a Fiat dealer with the appropriate diagnostic gear and when they first connected things up apparently, the message only showed very briefly - so briefly perhaps that they couldn't catch it ?? Should they be able to access stored info on the car's computer ? Strangely enough, a neighbour of mine has just taken his new Focus ST back to Ford dealer after he had an engine management warning light come on. They diagnosed 'mass air flow' defect, fixed things and he had the car back in 2 days !

 

[George Baker]

I have given Fiat 2 weeks to come up with an answer and today (the 14th day!) the dealer called to say that Fiat had installed a replacement engine management control unit - success at last, I thought. But, that was the good news. The bad news was that it didn't solve the problem. The Fiat 'boffins' are convinced that it's a software problem and they are "very close to a solution" but that could mean anything I suppose between now and Christmas ! If it's a software problem then presumably mine cannot be the only Multipla affected and of course it's put me right off the model anyway - a replacement may have the same fault. Time to send it back to Mr Fiat, I fear

 

[T14086]

George,diagnosing a problem that 'at the moment' isn't there is very difficult.Ask the garage DET/or equivalent to ask Fiat for a field engineer visit,in the meantime ask for a copy of examiner results on your car...as I already said 'errors' dont just flash up on examiner & all work done on your car is automatically stored on examiner,trust me.

 

[George Baker]

Thanks for that. Today, I received a call from dealer to say that the Fiat 'trouble-shooter' from HQ had taken over investigations, installed a replacement ECU and road-tested the car. Readings now 'well within parameters' and Fiat boffin is convinced that the problem is solved - in his opinion it was a rogue ECU and not a software issue. "The only way to be sure is to use the car and see what happens". I've agreed to take it back for normal use with the proviso that if the problem recurs then that is definitely a rejection situation, to which the dealer has agreed. I reckon that they have had a fair crack of the whip and if the problem turns out to be unsolvable then the car would not be 'fit for purpose' What bugs me is that in all other respects it is an ideal vehicle for my needs and has been a nice car to drive , so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[T14086]

Fingers crossed for you then...did you ever get to see/know what the error(s) were?