500 Noob From USA

[zonker]

Oh and if you'd like to see a full rundown what I have for weights on the various parts of the American 500, here u go:


Tire/Wheel Weights
Pop Hubcaps - 1.3 lbs ea. (5.2 lbs set)
OE Pop Steel Wheels/Tires/Hubcaps - 31.6 lbs (126.4 lbs set)
OE Abarth 16" wheel, OE Pirelli Tire with TPMS - 37.6 lbs (150.4 lbs set)
Rota Shakotan Wheels / OE Tires with TPMS - 29.9 lbs (119.6 lbs set)
Shakotan Wheels - 13.7 lbs (51.8 lbs set)
Pop Wheel (no tpms) - 14.4 lbs (57.6 lbs set)
Pop Wheel/ Hubacp - 15.8 lbs (63.2 lbs set)
Firehawk GT 185/55-15 - 16.2 lbs (64.8 lbs set)


Body Parts Weights
Front Bumper Support: 11.3 lbs
Rear Bumper Support (USA version) - 18.0 lbs
Horn and Bracket: 0.6 lbs
Rear Wiper Motor and Blade, with Hardware: 2.6 lbs
Underhood Insulation (w/ clips) - 0.8 lbs


Interior Parts Weights
Air Compressor - 4.6 lbs
OE Front Floor Mats - 3.1 lbs
Front Drivers Seat Assy (Pop Cloth) - 54.0 lbs
Front Pass. Seat Assy (Pop Cloth) - 47.9 lbs
Rear Headrests - 1.8 lbs ea.
Rear Seat Back (Pop hardtop) - 17.5 lbs x 2 = 35.0 lbs
Rear Seat Bottom - 7.4 lbs
Rear Seat Belts and Retractors/Brackets - 9.4 lbs
Rear Privacy Shelf - 0.8 lbs
Rear Cargo Carpet Panel - 4.4 lbs
Inside Rearview Mirror - 0.6 lbs
Roadside Kit (jack and lug wrench) 5 2 lbs
OE Spare Tire/Wheel - 20.8 lbs
Winch system including tire support brackets - 6.1 lbs
(Total Spare Tire Kit Assy - 32.1 lbs)
Fiat 500 Sport Armrest - 14 ounces

Drivetrain Parts Weights
Engine Cover - 2.4 lbs.
Stock intake w/ hoses - 6.6 lbs.
Short Shot Intake w/ K&N - 1.1 lbs.
OEM Muffler - 12.6 lbs
Straight Pipe w/ Tip - 4.3 lbs
OEM Battery - 36.2 lbs
Group 81 Battery - 16.4 lbs
Genesis Race Battery - 13.1 lb

 

[RobinPJ]

This is fantastic. Really interesting stuff - thank you.

I'm also pleasantly surprised to see what a nice flat load bed you have, having removed the rear seats. Can you not do anything to remove those two white bars?

Robin

PS Surely your "1400" badge is a voilation of your ethos?

PPS Are you on a constant diet yourself?

 

[loveshandbags]

Oh and if you'd like to see a full rundown what I have for weights on the various parts of the American 500, here u go:

You have gone to an amazing amount of trouble detailing the weight saving and thanks for sharing.

Can't help thinking that the European 500 would have given the same result but then it wouldn't have the Multi-air engine.

Going back on the picture of the ram effect pipe on the lip of the bumper - the 100HP guy had a much larger diameter pipe 'in' the bumper on the grill section. Your one looks too small.

Ram air effect was used by MX5 (Jackson) but Mazda already had a poorly designed intake system. I imported the above from the US and it definitely worked. IMHO the 500 doesn't need one from what I 'picked up' the 500 is getting all the air it needs.

There was a 'lot of talk' about CAI so I wouldn't go over old ground but there was a GSR CAI where the length of the induction pipe was 'fine tuned' to give the right balance. The only issue that came up was that since the open cone was low to the ground it could suck water in. That shorty one you had would have reduced the power since it had 'no length' of pipe. On the link below one of the members on here has posted a RR graph.

If you were to re-look at a newer setup you have given yourself options with the smaller battery. There appears to be room alongside the battery and particularly in front for an open cone. A large pipe (cold air feed) could run inside the bumper (has to come off) to give a 'ram effect' to the open cone. No chance of water ingress and it keeps the air cool. The induction noise from this is OK and it's not too loud. Some have used a bigger open cone like the one from ITG which possibly filters better.

Some 'old' threads...
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/199654-lad-motorsport-fiat-500-a-3.html?p=2766079
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/265055-induction-cold-air-feed.html?p=2748797

 

[zonker]

This is fantastic. Really interesting stuff - thank you.

I'm also pleasantly surprised to see what a nice flat load bed you have, having removed the rear seats. Can you not do anything to remove those two white bars?

Robin

PS Surely your "1400" badge is a voilation of your ethos?

PPS Are you on a constant diet yourself?

Thanks for the props - the load floor is quite flat with the exception of a dimpled in section about where the central seat belt anchor attaches. I put trim push pins in the bolt holes and just laid the carpet over it. Lots of room now in the back

As for the white bars - they are spot welded into the car and probably serve to stiffen the floor structure a bit. My thought is to make a bar that bolts to the top of that , and will span the full width of the carpet. Kind of a cargo stop to prevent goods from sliding out of the area, and also a securing point for holdown nets/straps etc.

I have made 2 concessions to the weight removal cause - I replaced the sickly sounding stock horn with a "beep beep" horn that weighs about 1 lb. more, and the badge... well I just had to have it. +1 oz. for the badge too

As for me, well if i lost weight like my car, I'd weigh 60lbs, but I still don't think I could travel as far on drinking only flammable liquids.

 

[zonker]

That shorty one you had would have reduced the power since it had 'no length' of pipe.

Since the pipe is prior to the throttle butterfly and does not contain any engine electronic management sensors like a MAF, VAM, or IAT, does having the pipe or even the pipe length still come into play as a tuning device for increasing hp?

 

[loveshandbags]

Since the pipe is prior to the throttle butterfly and does not contain any engine electronic management sensors like a MAF, VAM, or IAT, does having the pipe or even the pipe length still come into play as a tuning device for increasing hp?

From the feedback that I got on a different forum it would appear that is the case. On the pipercross setup on the previous links I felt that the length of induction pipe was too short compared with the proven GSR 'solution'. Some modders were making their own and I was given the lengths of bends needed.
When I saw this...
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/269985-what-americans-doing-modding-500-a.html?p=2760673
I thought the pipe was far too long. Get the impression that a short pipe gives more torque but less bhp and there are trade offs on the balance depending on the length.
If you want the link on the recommended measurements for non MA 1.4 engine I can dig it out.

 

[zonker]

Sure, i'd like to see what they are showing for a spec. IMO, I can see possibly how a tube could help by straightening out the airflow a bit prior to passing over the throttle body, but not sold that it really matters on this particular application.

On the MAF equipped Fords I've played with in the past, sensor location and tube diameter played a role in how the engine responded due to the the sensor reading pulsations of the air passing thru the hot wire and the velocity of air being pulled thru the tube.

 

[loveshandbags]

Sure, i'd like to see what they are showing for a spec. IMO, I can see possibly how a tube could help by straightening out the airflow a bit prior to passing over the throttle body, but not sold that it really matters on this particular application.

On the MAF equipped Fords I've played with in the past, sensor location and tube diameter played a role in how the engine responded due to the the sensor reading pulsations of the air passing thru the hot wire and the velocity of air being pulled thru the tube.

These are the measurements (Click here) that I was given for a non multi-air European 1.4. This is how it looked when it was installed. Actual results were disappointing but the ambient temperature looks too high. A 'real' GSR setup would have given 3-4 bhp with custom made hoses.

On the LAD Motorsport 500 it cost around £2K for a 'Port & Polish', Full exhaust system & Induction kit and supposedly gave 30bhp (no proven RR for this). P&P is out since since your head wouldn't be coming off, Exhaust system needs a Sports cat which with California regs would possibly rule it out and that leaves the CAI.

Would suggest creating a new thread with it marked as 'Tuning' and see if anyone on the FF has done a CAI on a Multi-air Fiat. A lot of modders were / are driving Panda 100HP but some have moved onto T-jets (1.4 with a Turbo) and they maybe able to 'shed some light'.

From looking at the new Suzuki Sports with the variable timing 1.6 133bhp engine it gave another 11-12 bhp over the 'older' engine. There were promises of a 10% gain in power on the Multi-air but it appears to have only have effected the mpg.

To get anywhere near the power to weight ratio of the A500 or even the 500 T sport that was announced you would need at least another 15bhp. A remap and a CAI & something else (how about ligher wheels with Conti tyres ?) may be your only option in $ terms.