Technical  New brake lines: trouble

Currently reading:
Technical  New brake lines: trouble

smahaley

Established member
Joined
Jan 20, 2025
Messages
316
Points
186
Location
North Carolina
IMG_9302.jpeg

Greetings!
The above is a left rear caliper for my 78 124. Owing to a mountain of other work required to get the suspension and brakes repaired, I opted for new brake lines.

No trouble running the central line from the master to the compensator, however, when mounting the rear lines, the fittings work on the T connector but do not seem to be threaded correctly for th calipers.

IMG_9301.jpeg

The above is of the same caliper. Thinking the threading on the new fittings was incorrect, I harvested a fitting from the old line. I know. It’s ugly and a bit rounded off. However it did screw in farther than the new fitting, although with some binding.

Issue: I’m able, with some what feels like u necessary force, run the fitting in. However when it really feels tight, there is still play in the line.

I wrote to the supplier to ask about fitment. But I’m also thinking that you good folks will be able to tell me the one or more ways in which I am wrong. :). Thanks in advance!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9299.jpeg
    IMG_9299.jpeg
    4.3 MB · Views: 22
The metal brake pipe (hard line?) coming from the T connector on the rear axle doesn't screw into the brake caliper, it connects to one end of a flexible hose (rubber brake hose) the other end of this hose screws into the brake caliper and is sealed by a copper washer.
Iirc, the threaded end of the hose that screws into the caliper may have a different thread than the hard line nuts -it may not even be metric... the size 3/8 in .x 24 t.p.i. has popped into my head :geek: .
There should be no need to use force, it should screw in using your fingers until it meets the copper washer and then tighten gently using a wrench.

So, the hose should be fitted to the caliper first, the other end of the hose is then inserted into a bracket that is (iirc) behind the brake dust shield and is secured in place by a spring clip, then fit the metal brake pipe/hard line and tighten gently.

Screenshot_14-4-2026_1545_autoricambi.us.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_14-4-2026_1545_autoricambi.us.jpeg
    Screenshot_14-4-2026_1545_autoricambi.us.jpeg
    242.7 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
Please keep posting your brake progress...soon as I get my new calipers I'm about to do my entire system....hopefully we will get more advice from 124bc1..., or bugsymike , I've already saved some of their brake advice from some time ago...remember to have your car level with the rear axle supported with jack stands , not hanging...did you buy new crush washers?
 
Last edited:
Please keep posting your brake progress...soon as I get my new calipers I'm about to do my entire system....hopefully we will get more advice from 124bc1...I've already saved some of his brake advice from some time ago...remember to have your car level with the rear axle supported with jack stands , not hanging...did you buy new crush washers?
IMG_9310.jpeg

Hi @Slotman - yes! New rear brake lines in, new shocks, managed to (not pictured) get the rear end lifted and reattached to trailing arms and panhard bar. I noted that the car was / is missing the forward covers for that rear brakes. I attribute that to deep snows and salt in Boston that probably bent them away. I had to improvise connections for the brackets that hold the flexible brake hoses.

Otherwise - today I am working on reinstalling the front suspension… whew!
 
------------- I noted that the car was / is missing the forward covers for that rear brakes. I attribute that to deep snows and salt in Boston that probably bent them away. I had to improvise connections for the brackets that hold the flexible brake hoses.

Otherwise - today I am working on reinstalling the front suspension… whew!
Those forward covers were often left off. Over here, the little 6mm (10mm head) bolts would often shear off, and most mechanics could not be bothered with removing the sheared bolts to refit the covers (time is money, losing time is therefore...). I don't think their absence makes much difference, they just help to keep the brake calipers a bit cleaner.
 
Yeah… I figure it’s going to be out of whack so have opted for even distribution of spacers and then will let the pro’s do the fine adjustments later…
I used to do a rudimentary adjustment at home on the front suspension after a front crossmember and lot of components had been changed, before installing the suspension springs, this meant it was easy to add or remove shims safely.

The front coil springs measure 8.5 - 9 inches between their upper and lower seatings when compressed (cars sitting on it's wheels normally).

Camber adjustment :-
So, before installing the springs, and with the car on axle stands, I used to place blocks under the front wheels so that there was an 8.5 - 9 inch distance between the spring seatings, check the camber using a spirit level against the wheel rim (vertical = 0* camber), I used to set it so that the top of the wheel rim was c. 1/8 inch further in than the bottom of the rim - giving a little negative camber.

Caster adjustment:-
Caster adjustment is harder to measure at home as it involves steering to one lock by a set no. of degrees , zeroing a gauge and then steering the same no. of degrees onto the opposite lock and then reading the gauge -in the old days it could be done using chalk marks on the floor.. I'd just check that the total thickness of the shims on the rear pivot pin mounting on the crossmember is slightly greater that those on the front mounting by maybe 2 thin shims - this should kick the lower ball joint forward just enough to give a little positive caster.

Tracking adjustment:-
Tracking adjustment - 1st set the wheels straight ahead by steering all the way to the left, then count the no. of turns of the steering wheel to go fully to the right, divide no. of turns by 2 and bring wheel back by this no of turns to centralise the steering. p
Place/attach using straps or clamps, 2 straight edges against the front wheels pointing forwards (you could use 2 lengths of very straight timber or 2 tubes/pipes). Make a mark on each st. edge that is the same distance from the wheel rim, then make a another mark on each st. edge that is 14 inches ahead of the 1st mark, now measure the distance between the straight edges at the 2 marked places Front measurement should be 3/16 inch smaller that the rear measurement if you want 3/16 in. toe-in.

These rough checks/adjustments should be enough to set the car up to drive to a professional wheel alignment shop without tearing the tread from the tires, sometimes, you get lucky and need very minimal further adjustment.

Here's a helper page with the settings from the ever-helpful folks@ autoricambi.us :
 

Attachments

  • F124 front wheel alignment.jpeg
    F124 front wheel alignment.jpeg
    76.1 KB · Views: 24
Last edited:
As above and re the caster, we had a Dunlop Caster and Camber alignment gauge and in the box was a rectangle made of steel bars with a cross diagonal in it so as you say mark the floor with chalk to match. I used to own one of these kits which is the same as we used on brand new Lada's (Fiat 124 clone) around 1975, but sold it on through lack of use.:(
This one is advertised on eBay.eBay item number:306637791342
 

Attachments

  • 1776841390613.png
    1776841390613.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 19
Those forward covers were often left off. Over here, the little 6mm (10mm head) bolts would often shear off, and most mechanics could not be bothered with removing the sheared bolts to refit the covers (time is money, losing time is therefore...). I don't think their absence makes much difference, they just help to keep the brake calipers a bit cleaner.
Good to know! I did have some sheared off bolts there - had to drill out and replace….
 
As above and re the caster, we had a Dunlop Caster and Camber alignment gauge and in the box was a rectangle made of steel bars with a cross diagonal in it so as you say mark the floor with chalk to match. I used to own one of these kits which is the same as we used on brand new Lada's (Fiat 124 clone) around 1975, but sold it on through lack of use.:(
This one is advertised on eBay.eBay item number:306637791342
I well remember using these gauges in my early career having been shown how to use them @ college. Most could never grasp how to use it and in work avoided such work 'like the plague', leaving it to someone else to 'get stuck with such fiddly work'. Much later, for home use, I invested in Kismet caster/ camber gauges plus graduated steering turntables - these removed the need to use the steering angle gauge or mark the floor with chalk, still have them :)

Here's another cleaner example of the Dunlop gauges that sold recently for a very reasonable price:-

Dunlop caster camber gauges_Tool Squirrel UK.jpeg



Nowadays, many seem to use a magnetic caster/camber gauge (there are some very inexpensive ones) that can be attached to e.g. the brake disc :-

Magnetic caster camber gauge.jpeg
 
I hereby challenge you to a "who has the ugliest brake hose " contest, and I submit mine...can you beat this one? You got me motivated, and I ordered my calipers today, so I will be trying to keep up with you....:)View attachment 485091
Those cracks wouldn't be as bad if you reduced the size of your picture. ;)

The only brake hoses I've seen in worse condition were those nibbled on by rodents. And they don't stop until they hit brake fluid. I don't think they like brake fluid...

Reminds me of the section in the Tester's Manual for (Irish) Annual car test concerning checking brake hoses - it goes something like :- check for bulges, splits, cuts, severely corroded metal end fittings or 'cracks that expose the inner reinforcing material'. :geek:

Do you intend fitting a new master cylinder also when changing the brake calipers?
 
Yeah… I figure it’s going to be out of whack so have opted for even distribution of spacers and then will let the pro’s do the fine adjustments later…
I forgot to mention in post #11 that there are inexpensive caster/camber gauges that attach magnetically to the brake disc or hub, maybe your Mechanic neighbour has one or somewhere like AutoZone may have one to hire out?
Here's an example of a magnetic caster/camber gauge, there's lots of YouTube videos on how to use it :-

Magnetic caster camber gauge.jpeg
 
I forgot to mention in post #11 that there are inexpensive caster/camber gauges that attach magnetically to the brake disc or hub, maybe your Mechanic neighbour has one or somewhere like AutoZone may have one to hire out?
Here's an example of a magnetic caster/camber gauge, there's lots of YouTube videos on how to use it :-

View attachment 485176
Ah - great - that looks like something I could use! Thank you!
 
Those cracks wouldn't be as bad if you reduced the size of your picture. ;)

The only brake hoses I've seen in worse condition were those nibbled on by rodents. And they don't stop until they hit brake fluid. I don't think they like brake fluid...

Reminds me of the section in the Tester's Manual for (Irish) Annual car test concerning checking brake hoses - it goes something like :- check for bulges, splits, cuts, severely corroded metal end fittings or 'cracks that expose the inner reinforcing material'. :geek:

Do you intend fitting a new master cylinder also when changing the brake calipers?
I was shocked as well when I saw it, the car sat for 12 years in a heated garage, not outside...age, and the fact it's a short stubby little hose that makes a pretty sharp bend could be the reason? All the other 4 hoses show no cracks.
Im replacing my master cylinder, fluid reservoir and hoses, calipers, rotors, most of the springs and clips, and the 5 rubber hoses...
 
Back
Top