Punto (Mk1) My MK1 Punto Sporting 1.2 16v

[blu73]

i still never been in a 16v mk1 punto but i can tell you the engine in a cento makes a pretty quick car, i suspect the panda is even lighter so you should have a right wee beastie

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm sorry - it was a bit knocked around due to school runs in London, had no Mot, needed more than its running value in Mot repairs, and had a fair chance of being sent to the crusher soon even if someone had repaired it. At 50k miles the engine was the valuable bit & yes that's exactly why I went for it - all the Sportings (at my £350 engine budget) were dead or dying having been (happily) thrashed around for 15 years. Sorry again but I'd never kill a good one

Suppose I'll let you off with this one...I killed one of the 900 or so ever registered in the uk too so can't really complain....fun fact for the day, on the official figures the elx was faster than a sporting...

 

[Palio]

Suppose I'll let you off with this one...I killed one of the 900 or so ever registered in the uk too so can't really complain....fun fact for the day, on the official figures the elx was faster than a sporting...

Thank you :worship:

Really? Wonder why that is - I would have expected the Sporting to be quicker, and assumed it had different gear ratios to achieve that. Hmm, interesting.

If I can redeem myself a little I'm refusing to scrap my old Mk1 Sporting which I had from new for 5 years, and Mum has used for the last 10. Paint is in a right state now, and needs all sorts of other work, including welding for the next MOT. Mum is buying a new Panda 4x4 and I'll be sitting the Punto out the back (on my patio actually!! ) until I can convince myself I can justify a full resto on it - I know it's financial suicide but some cars need saving!

 

[blu73]

Is the sporting got a 6 speed? again my knowledge is coming from cento conversions, but if you stick a 6 speed box in a cento you get faster acceleration but lower top end.

 

[StevenRB45]

Seem to remember the elx had very slightly longer gears, so a little bit slower to 60 but a little bit higher v max (by 1 whole mph). Tbf tho the elx has narrower tyres so might just be a lack of grip and lower rolling resistance!

 

[Palio]

The mk1 Sporting had 5 speeds, mk2 had 6 but was geared more for economy than fun.......... Panda will run though a standard Panda box I think, but I'm letting someone with technical & mechanical ability do it for me tbh - safer that way!!

If anyone needs ELX bits shout before everything else gets scrapped - the car's still whole at present I think. The person doing it for me failed to sell Punto SX bits on one he'd broken (seems to be little demand for mk1 Punto bits), so don't think he's planning to do anything but pull the engine and loom out, and weigh it in. Bit of a waste but I can't store them

 

[blu73]

just not enough of them on the road anymore for there to be much demand anymore i think..
I was talking to a guy that breaks coupes the other day and he was saying his whole business was built on breaking mk1 punto's and particularly GT models but over last few years (since scrappage scheme basically) he had to specialise in something else to survive - i should think he will be running out of coupes soon too.

 

[blu73]

Tbf tho the elx has narrower tyres so might just be a lack of grip and lower rolling resistance!

the width won't make any difference really, the rotational speed of the wheel at a given rev is constant no matter how wide and grippy the tyre is - it would effect grip and therefore acceleration and braking etc but its only the rolling diameter that should effect the ultimate top speed. Of course thats assuming you had a long enough private bit road to get it all the way up to the limiter, not likely lol.

 

[fostertom]

Someone tell me more about "cable set up rather than the dim witted fly by wire"

Does that mean when you floor it the ECU decides to over-rule with gradual acceleration or something, for emissions or economy reasons?

 

[Palio]

Someone tell me more about "cable set up rather than the dim witted fly by wire"

In non-tech speak traditional accelerator pedals are linked by cables or rods to the throttle butterfly. Press the pedal, something moves and you go faster. These days everything seems to be fly by wire where there's no mechanical connection - something electronic senses when you hit the pedal and tells something else electronic to give it more juice - either that or it's magic!! Either way you seem to lose a bit of feel and it seems a bit slower to react - maybe we just imagine it........

Electronic power steering is meant to be better too, but it isn't if you like feel in your steering. Progress eh? :bang:

 

[blu73]

I don't think its really fair to say cable is better in general but some systems are slow, some systems will smooth out power delivery (ie, you can't just floor it and it open to wide throttle immediately). But the advantages of having it are clear - less moving parts, it will weigh less than cable system, and the ecu has fully control over the throttle so used for traction control, cruise control and loads of other stuff.. I don't have much bad to say about them on any car i've owned with one but i do hear people moaning about them at times. My only problem with them is it makes it harder to use modern engines in older cars but its really not that bigger deal.

I'd say the worst throttle pedal i have ever experienced is a corsa b (1.2 16v), that is cable driven one not a FBW one.

 

[fostertom]

Electronic power steering is meant to be better too, but it isn't if you like feel in your steering. Progress eh? :bang:

What kind of PAS has my mk.1 Punto Cabrio got then? It's very good!

 

[fostertom]

I don't think its really fair to say cable is better ... but i do hear people moaning about them

That's helpful. But what I really enjoy is lift-off oversteer, which mk.1 Puntos, both medium-skinny/high/soft ELX75, and wider/lower/harder Sporting-spec Cabrio, do beautifully. I would hate to lose that, which depends on v sharp on/off throttle.

 

[Palio]

What kind of PAS has my mk.1 Punto Cabrio got then? It's very good!

Yes it's excellent. It's a mechanical system using pas fluid.

Both electric pas and fly by wire have advantages and some prefer them. I like a good old mechanical system with plenty of feel and no electrics to go wrong. Not a biggie but it doesn't feel like progress when you prefer the older car!

 

[blu73]

exactly, its not really about what is better technically, its what you prefer the feel of..

and as above your has hydraulic PAS, belt driven pump... yours is a 1.6 right?

 

[fostertom]

No it's a late 1.2 ELX85, but I started with a 1.6 ELX90 which after scraping one side along a wall (on ice) is still under tarpaulin as spares car (same yellow - and source of much classier grey velour interior). Tho when I discovered the Barchetta is basically a mk.1 Punto with 1747TC engine, I did begin to think of mating the old cab with a crashed Barchetta!

 

[Bushboy]

How similar is the Barchetta to the MK1 Punto? I understand they are based on the same chassis but how far apart are they in terms of engine mounting points etc?

I have a theory that it would be relatively "easy" to put the 1.6 16v DOHC engine from the bravo/a into the MK1 using the engine mounts from the 1.6 8v sporting retaining the transmission and running gear from the Punto too. Thats a nice 102hp engine and would be fairly quick.

The 1.8 16v would be a nice swap though with 115hp using the bravo engine or 130hp using the barchetta/mk2 punto engine.

 

[bluejohn125]

I wouldn't see much point in putting a 1.8 into a Mk1 - just restore a MK2 HGT instead!

But the 1.6 16V should be doable - the bottom end is from the Tipo 1.6 (8V, SPI) which gained MPI when it became the Punto 90 engine, and then a proper modern 16V head and injection etc for the Brava / Bravo. One from an earlier car would probably be easier (electrics etc).

 

[Bushboy]

There is also potential to just use GT engine mounts too as the 1.4 8v is heavily related to the 1.6 8v the 1.6 16v is based on. Infact its not uncommon for people to use the 1.6 8v block in the Punto GT for a higher capacity starting point so it's likely you would be able to use the Punto GT engine mounts, gearbox and running gear on the 1.6 16v engine.

Although I'm not sure why you would use a GT as a starting point. Might be easier to source GT parts over 90 parts though.

 

[bluejohn125]

And of course in the 1990s Fiat put the 1.4 8v Tipo engine into the Uno, and reversed this (in some markets) but putting a 1.1 FIRE into the Tipo!