My FIRST Car

[Hellcat]

ok how is it actually possible to get caught being the man driver? if you crash you just say i borrowed the car at the time, theres no way an insurance company could find out unless you crash 4 times or somthing and you're driving all the time even then the evidence is only circumstantial, they would have to hire a private detective for a week to get proper proof.

They don't need to hire private detectives. They have fraud departments who amongst other roles check that who is using the car is the main driver.

 

[CinqyAbarth]

Young driver crashes car.

Police get called.

Young driver in shock and nervous.

Police Officer: " Is this your car?"

Young Driver: "Yes."

Police Officer checks the details of the car on the national computer. This shows who the car is registered to. It also names who insured the car, which insurance company it is with, whether it is taxed and MOT'd etc.

Police Officer: "Do you have insurance?"

Young Driver: "Yes. I'm on my mum's policy."

Police Officer: "So it's your car but you are driving on your mum's policy?"

Young Driver: "Erm... erm... yeah but, no but..."

One slip of the tongue and that's it, you get caught out. The Police are canny to young drivers in bigger/ more powerful cars. They know that most young drivers can't afford to drive them so their suspicions are raised. Does mum's car really have neons in the footwell and red seat belt pads? A sub in the boot and a 300w amp under the passenger seat? Chrome gear lever surround, painted interior plastics, Lockwood white dial kit?

Don't forget that witnesses such as neighbours may also be asked questions, CCT cameras are everywhere, number plate recognition is becoming common place to match up your every move that you might be questioned about. How come mummy's car is always parked at son's workplace/ university when mummy stays at home? Ever had an accident and been asked questioned when you're still in shock? It's not easy to try and remember alibis in that kind of situation.

All it takes one accident and one attentive Police Officer. After you've been prosecuted for driving without insurance (and mummy gets done for fraud) just try getting insurance after that. No insurance company will touch you...

My first car, a cinquecento 899cc, was insured in my mums name, she phoned the insurance company, said the car was in her sons name (me) and she needed an any driver policy, they insured her fine, i didnt have a full license then.
My second car, a cinquecento 1108cc, was also insured on these terms (she switched the car on the policy) a policecar blocked my car in a car parking space when i was playing football at a local park, came and found me, said is this your car 'yes' is it insured 'yes in my mums name' ok here's a producer (policeman was a cock who was the year above me at school), drove off, fine...
There were no problems from insurance company or police in that case, everything was declared as my car but insured in my mums name as the policy started when i didnt have a full license.

 

[CinqyAbarth]

They don't need to hire private detectives. They have fraud departments who amongst other roles check that who is using the car is the main driver.

But again, how can they tell who drives the car more and is therefore the main driver?

 

[Chas Uno]

My first car, a cinquecento 899cc, was insured in my mums name, she phoned the insurance company, said the car was in her sons name (me) and she needed an any driver policy, they insured her fine, i didnt have a full license then.

'Any driver' means just that - anyone can drive it. 'Named driver' however is a specific additional driver insured as well as the MAIN insured driver of the car. The full details of the additional driver has to be declared before a policy is agreed, whereas an 'any driver' policy does not require this.

My second car, a cinquecento 1108cc, was also insured on these terms (she switched the car on the policy) a policecar blocked my car in a car parking space when i was playing football at a local park, came and found me, said is this your car 'yes' is it insured 'yes in my mums name' ok here's a producer (policeman was a cock who was the year above me at school), drove off, fine...
There were no problems from insurance company or police in that case, everything was declared as my car but insured in my mums name as the policy started when i didnt have a full license.

First of all, you didn't have an accident. The insurance companies are quick to take your money when you want insurance, but even quicker to look for a reason NOT to pay out in the event of a claim. No claim was made so the insurance company didn't care...

And as mentioned above, 'any driver' means 'any driver', so if that's how your car was insured then you would have been covered. You pay MORE for 'any driver' than for a 'named driver' policy.

But again, how can they tell who drives the car more and is therefore the main driver?

As mentioned above. The type of car, the age of the driver and whether any 'mods' have been done. Very few mums mod their cars, most young drivers do. So if the insurance company are facing a claim of $10000's then they are quite happy to pay their fraud department to look for evidence that will null and void the claim leaving the un-insured facing the bill.

Don't forget that nothing is normally done until AFTER a claim has been put in. That's when the insurance company will try and weasel out of making payments.

Most people who deceive their insurance company under the named driver policies get away with it because no claims are involved. You take your chance, but are you prepared to live with being involved in an accident that leaves you liable and with no cover? Are you prepared to risk ruining someone's life and leaving them with no recourse to compensation if a serious accident turns out to be your fault?

Insurance companies are leeches, no doubt about it. But using fraudulent methods to get insurance is not the way to go, especially if it means that inexperienced young drivers get to drive higher risk vehicles that they otherwise wouldn't be able to insure.

 

[Hellcat]

But again, how can they tell who drives the car more and is therefore the main driver?

If they have cause to believe a named driver may be the main driver, they may well focus their fraud department to check who actually drives the car. They will simply sit outside your house and see who drives it most.

They can spot potential fraud easily by seeing where someone insures a 2nd car and names someone on that 2nd car. E.g. Mr Mann insures a Volvo S80 and also insures a Citroen Saxo and puts his son on the Saxo. Wonder who will be driving the Saxo most :chin:

 

[Dobby]

I have to agree with this 'parents policy thing'

I passed my test a week before my 19th birthday, i was very lucky at the time as my mum bought me my first car (H reg Nissan Micra ) i would never have even thought about asking her to be my main insurer. My insurance at the time was just over £1300 (i'm going back 10 years) and i paid that each month myself and built up my own no claims

Why on earth do you want a car that size? you can get some lovely 'larger' looking cars with a small engine and hence lower premiums, unless you spend all day on a racetrack no-one can or should do more than 30/40 anyway and 70 tops on the motorway, especially as you've only just passed your test

 

[Hellcat]

That 8v wouldn't be much use on a race track

 

[Dobby]

That 8v wouldn't be much use on a race track

oh you know what i mean

 

[fenton_jd]

Yes, we can see. So you use fraud instead

Why do you think most young drivers drive 'small tins on wheels'? Maybe A: their parents try to make them take on their own responsibilities in life and/ or B: they don't have parents who will take out insurance fraudulently. One of the things about becoming an adult is standing on your own two feet and proving your merit.

Can't see any signs of this here...

I can, I worked my ass off to buy this car for a start. My entire months wages went into it and I've been sat here with no money in my wallet since 28th july and wont have any more until the end of august. I'm paying £162 per month for insurance for me and my mum. She is making me pay the entire policy.

This car is totally standard, I have no intention of modifying it on my mums policy. I bought this car to match my new job which I worked extremely hard to get so dont you dare say that I'm not standing on my own two feet.

I'm taking on any responsiblily if I crash it or whatever.
On paper my mum owns this car, but I've paid every penny for it.

So far I must have been tailgated about 30 times, I've had a taxi driver rammed up my ass at 60mph on duel carriage way, I've had some **** middle aged woman reverse out of a bay infront of me at high speed without even looking.

How much insurance are these experienced prats paying? £200 a year...

I don't know much about Lagunas, but how come it's your first car and you're on a forum for Fiats? Everyone is welcome here of course, but most have or have had a Fiat!

Edit: Also, for those wondering why I'm on a fiat site saying that I have a renault, my previous 200 odd posts were all to do with my mums 1.2 punto which I spent the last two months driving so its not like I've just thrown myself into a massive car without any knowledge of smaller ones.

Also, extremely ironically as well, My mums punto has a peco backbox and 15" fox racing alloys, with a "sports air filter".

Now which would I be more likely to be done for fraud on?

 

[ChrisUK]

Doesn't have to be fraud just let your mum drive it now and again go give her punto a break .

 

[Chas Uno]

Well, I appreciate that you are putting all your money into it (most of us have been in the same boat believe it or not...) but that doesn't get away from the fact that you are using fraudulent details to get your insurance. You are doing this to enable you to drive ''your'' car by deliberately giving incorrect details to the insurance company so they give you a lower premium. That is fraud, as well as a prosecutable offence.

Whether you pay for the insurance or not, your mum is designated as the main driver and you are a 'named' driver. That lowers the premium considerably than if you took out the insurance in your own name because the insurance company is 'told' that your mum is the main driver and you will only drive it occasionally. But that's not the case is it? You've just admitted to fraud by saying you bought the car but it's registered in your mum's name, and the insurance is also in your mum's name. So by the terms and conditions in the insurance policy your mum must be the main driver of the vehicle, but from what you say (the title of this thread is "My FIRST Car'' this is not the case is it?

As a consequence YOU are driving without insurance because the insurance company is not obliged to cover you. The reason for this is that you have breached the terms and conditions of the policy. Not to mention both you and your mum can be prosecuted for fraud. What will you do if you have an accident and the insurance company could prove you were the main driver and withdrew insurance cover? What would you do if you had an accident and injured someone badly, and this person needed compensation to deal with their injuries? Are you going to pay for this out of your own pocket?

I too worked my ass off to pay for my first car many years ago. I also worked my ass off to pay for the tax, MOT and the insurance in my own name. I only bought a 1.3 Cavalier instead of a 2.0 litre version because the insurance was TOO EXPENSIVE for the bigger engined models. It's like that for a reason, because new drivers in bigger engined cars have higher statistical risks, hence the premium is higher as a result. After a few years I built up my no claims bonus, got some experience behind me and THEN moved up to bigger cars.

So if you are standing on your own two feet, why are you using your mum to enable you to drive a bigger engined car instead of you taking out insurance in your own name?

Sorry if this sounds like people are having a go at you, but this isn't the first time someone comes on here bragging about owning and driving a bigger car by using their parent's insurance. You can't escape from the fact that you risk driving uninsured because of what you are doing and that's why people take such posts as seriously as they do. Just because you hold an insurance certificate in your hand does NOT guarantee you are insured if you've given false details.

That's the severity of the situation, which by the looks of it you have yet to grasp.

 

[Chas Uno]

This might make things a little clearer:

The insurance terms and conditons, state clearly that "It is your responsibility to provide complete and accurate information to insurers when you take out your insurance policy, throughout the life of your policy, and when you renew your insurance. Failure to disclose information pertaining to your insurance, or any inaccuracies in information given, could result in your insurance policy being invalid or cover not operating fully. If you are in any doubt whether information is material, you should disclose it."

In addition to this, it will inform you that "It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act to make any false statements or withold any relevant information to obtain a Certificate of Motor Insurance".

A discussion on a similar matter of young drivers as 'named drivers' was done on this forum:

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/community/forums/t/young-driver-insurance-tips-7927.aspx

 

[Tabblink182]

lets be honest everyone does it, its just a lupole in the insurance companies

but it is a never ending downward spiral. i did remember reading on this thread that we should pay our way properly, with me it wasnt the case.

i have just been offered an apprentiship (on an appretice's wage) and i couldnt afford to insure it ! but i needed a car for work (no buses or anything in the local area). i ended getting a fiesta as a named driver for £600, where as on my own they wanted nearer the sum of £2000

i only got caught out when i brought my cinq, i phoned up to change the car on the policy and she questioned why i was phoning and not my dad, from there she called the manager and then he told me that i was attempting to fraud the company blah blah blah. i then i had to get my own.

i can afford it now at £1100 due to 2 years of pay risers, but im still scraping by

i think people will stop abusing the system when insurance companies offer us fair prices and stop abusing us !

 

[fenton_jd]

So if you are standing on your own two feet, why are you using your mum to enable you to drive a bigger engined car instead of you taking out insurance in your own name?

My mum does actually drive my car, so makes sense.

I'm sick of being ripped off by everything, at the end of the day I'm still probably paying nearly 5x the amount of insurance that you are. I've been quoted nearly £200 more on a 899cc fiat ****ing cinequcento on my own policy than I have on this laguna on my mums policy, that to me is totally insane. If I crash in the cinequcento Id probably die.

Sure inexperienced drivers are higher risk, but then so are old people, but do they get charged 5 - 10x the amount that middle aged people do? course not. There would be uproar if they were due to pensions not being enough etc etc.

Young people are being absolutley raped by insurance companies, they must make ****loads of profit. They're not just charging "more", they're charging ****loads more. You could be insured on a supercar for the same kind of price that I'd be paying to be insured on a laguna.

If they are introducing this "1 whole year of driving experience before you can take your test" idea, will young peoples insurance premiums drop considerably? will they ********.

 

[Tabblink182]

:yeahthat:

he does have a point

insurance companies are asking for it, there is no need for these extortionate (cant spell) amounts

in all honesty, would i be a higher risk in a cinq sporting, or on a yam R6 ?

£1100 for cinq
£645 for r6

???????????????????

they prey on young DRIVERS.

and i know its not right and even i admit i shouldnt have done it

but if they take the p*ss

why cant we ?

 

[Jamie]

:bang:

why do some members turn EVERY single thread into a god damn argument!

 

[wolfracepunto]

What about these no claims for named driver policies? Insurance companies are surely expecting people to take out these policies in the early years, and once the no claims are built up they can take out their own policy.

All this standing on your own 2 feet stuff and buying old, unrefined old technology cars to aid insurance. What a load of rubbish. I'd rather be driving around in a new car that doesnt pollute as much, is MUCH safer in the event of a crash (reduces insurance ) and is alot easier to drive (reducing the risk of a crash).

Just let the guy enjoy his car, which he totally deserves to.

 

[Tabblink182]

eeeyee

lets all kiss and make up

 

[ChrisUK]

What about these no claims for named driver policies? Insurance companies are surely expecting people to take out these policies in the early years, and once the no claims are built up they can take out their own policy.

All this standing on your own 2 feet stuff and buying old, unrefined old technology cars to aid insurance. What a load of rubbish. I'd rather be driving around in a new car that doesnt pollute as much, is MUCH safer in the event of a crash (reduces insurance ) and is alot easier to drive (reducing the risk of a crash).

Just let the guy enjoy his car, which he totally deserves to.

Next time your in the north east ill buy you a pint!

 

[Chas Uno]

My mum does actually drive my car, so makes sense.

To you it does. Is she the 'Main driver' as declared on the policy? Would she stand up and admit this in a court of law if necessary?

I'm sick of being ripped off by everything, at the end of the day I'm still probably paying nearly 5x the amount of insurance that you are.

Yes, because:

A: I'm older than you
B: I've got more driving experience than you
C: I've got a very good and proven driving record and a clean licence
D: I've got maximum no claims bonus

And guess what? When I first stared driving, in real terms I was paying many times what I am paying now. I didn't have a choice in the matter.

I've been quoted nearly £200 more on a 899cc fiat ****ing cinequcento on my own policy than I have on this laguna on my mums policy, that to me is totally insane. If I crash in the cinequcento Id probably die.

First of all, the secret is not to crash. You can die in ANY car. A huge bulet proof Mercedes didn't exactly help Princess Diana did it?

And the reason it costs more to insure the Cinq is because it was done in your name and being young and inexperienced, you are a high risk driver. The Laguna was cheaper because it was in your mum's name with you as a named driver.

Sure inexperienced drivers are higher risk, but then so are old people, but do they get charged 5 - 10x the amount that middle aged people do? course not. There would be uproar if they were due to pensions not being enough etc etc.

Older people's risks go up with age and insurance DOES go up as a result. Insurance is not a charity and is not linked in any way to pensions. It is based on risk statistics, and the higher the risks the more you pay. It does not discrimate nor favour any age group, only on how likely you are to make a claim.

Young people are being absolutley raped by insurance companies, they must make ****loads of profit. They're not just charging "more", they're charging ****loads more. You could be insured on a supercar for the same kind of price that I'd be paying to be insured on a laguna.

If they are introducing this "1 whole year of driving experience before you can take your test" idea, will young peoples insurance premiums drop considerably? will they ********.

When you've finished swearing...

If young people stopped having accidents and making claims then their premiums would fall. While the claim rate is high the premiums are adjusted to cover this, and that's why young people pay so much for their insurance.


It's really very simple:

The higher the risk you are - the more you pay.

The lower the risk you are - the less you pay.


Try and drive safely for the first couple of years, don't make any claims and build up a no claims bonus and that will make your premium fall. You can also lower your premiums by driving a lower risk car like an 899cc Cinq in your own name rather than a 1.6 Laguna. Oh, you can't build up a no-claims bonus because you aren't insured with your own policy, only as a named driver under someone elses. You're going to have to wait until you're about 30 years old before your premiums really come down without any no-claims.

And you won't drive an 899cc Cinq because size matters to you, so I guess you'll have to continue to use 'Fronting' to drive a car that would be otherwise uninsurable to you. Now, if every young driver did this can you imagine what would happen? Yes, statistics show they WOULD use the extra performance, they WOULD have accidents at higher speeds and the resulting consequences would be worse than if they were in smaller/ lower powered vehicles.

I'm not sure if you read it in my post above, but do remember this quote from the Road Traffic Act:

"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act to make any false statements or withold any relevant information to obtain a Certificate of Motor Insurance".

And that includes declaring someone as a named driver when they are actually the main driver.