Off Topic My 500 has been cloned...

[RobinPJ]

... by me.

So we have a 2010 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance. Totally standard with the exception of rear parking sensors (because my wife cannot drive) and a dualogic gearbox (because my wife really cannot drive). It has done 15,400 miles in the three years that we have owned it.

It has run faultlessly bar one timing issue when it was a week old. Passed its MOT last week. The seats could do with a steam clean and both front alloys have been mangled (because my wife really really cannot drive) and need a proper refurb.

Anyway, the point is we bought it on finance. With a £2,500 deposit we have paid £128 a month for the last three years. Our final balloon payment is coming up, and is about £5,600. So now we have some choices:

First option: find £5,600 and buy the car and keep it.

Second option: sell the car having cleared the finance, leaving us some amount of cash.

Third option: chop it in for a new one.

The upside of the first option is of course that we would then own the car outright and have no more monthly payments to make. The downsides would be (i) that we have to find £5,600 that we don't have and (ii) we start to get into the murky waters of things wearing out and/or possibly breaking. Other than annual services (plus fuel and insurance and the purchase price) the car has not cost us anything to run. That clearly won't go on forever, and the brakes will need doing soon. I'm also worried about the door handles and the boot wiring as the car gets quite a lot of abuse from the family as it is used on the school run twice a day. Of course, it may be that with brakes fitted by an indie it would be cost free for another couple of years, but it is a gamble. I suspect it will need tyres in a year or two as well.

The upside of the second option would be that we get a couple of grand cash. But the downside would be that we would have to live with just one car (a Golf). Even though I commute by bike and train, with kids now rising 15 and 10, there are times when we do need a second car. Not that many times, true, and it is a luxury to have both 500 and the VW. Oh, and I'd have to flog off my winter tyres and wheels.

The upside of the third option would be to keep out outgoings the same, and get a new car with a new warranty, so hopefully not incurring any unexpected expenses. The downside is that we are still shelling out cash every month.

Having given it quite a bit of thought I think that we are going to take the third option. With that in mind I have got some figures from my local dealer, and I am quite pleased with the deal I am being offered. It has improved steadily over the last week as I have pushed them to get us to the same monthly payment with the lowest possible deposit contribution from us. The current proposal is for a 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance, rear parking sensors and dualogic box. (I want to go for Volare Blue this time but my daughter dislikes it and my wife is unsure, and wants to minimise the cost, so we have ended up back in a white one.) So the same car.

3 year finance deal
£709 deposit from us
£1000 deposit contribution from Fiat
£1,800 equity in our car (effectively a £7,400 trade in)
£129 a month over three years (5,000 miles pa)
£5,600 final balloon payment/guaranteed future value.​

So go on. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Mercky]

Did you consider the TA for a change?

 

[loveshandbags]

... by me.

So we have a 2010 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance. Totally standard with the exception of rear parking sensors (because my wife cannot drive) and a dualogic gearbox (because my wife really cannot drive). It has done 15,400 miles in the three years that we have owned it.

It has run faultlessly bar one timing issue when it was a week old. Passed its MOT last week. The seats could do with a steam clean and both front alloys have been mangled (because my wife really really cannot drive) and need a proper refurb.

Anyway, the point is we bought it on finance. With a £2,500 deposit we have paid £128 a month for the last three years. Our final balloon payment is coming up, and is about £5,600. So now we have some choices:

First option: find £5,600 and buy the car and keep it.

Second option: sell the car having cleared the finance, leaving us some amount of cash.

Third option: chop it in for a new one.

The upside of the first option is of course that we would then own the car outright and have no more monthly payments to make. The downsides would be (i) that we have to find £5,600 that we don't have and (ii) we start to get into the murky waters of things wearing out and/or possibly breaking. Other than annual services (plus fuel and insurance and the purchase price) the car has not cost us anything to run. That clearly won't go on forever, and the brakes will need doing soon. I'm also worried about the door handles and the boot wiring as the car gets quite a lot of abuse from the family as it is used on the school run twice a day. Of course, it may be that with brakes fitted by an indie it would be cost free for another couple of years, but it is a gamble. I suspect it will need tyres in a year or two as well.

The upside of the second option would be that we get a couple of grand cash. But the downside would be that we would have to live with just one car (a Golf). Even though I commute by bike and train, with kids now rising 15 and 10, there are times when we do need a second car. Not that many times, true, and it is a luxury to have both 500 and the VW. Oh, and I'd have to flog off my winter tyres and wheels.

The upside of the third option would be to keep out outgoings the same, and get a new car with a new warranty, so hopefully not incurring any unexpected expenses. The downside is that we are still shelling out cash every month.

Having given it quite a bit of thought I think that we are going to take the third option. With that in mind I have got some figures from my local dealer, and I am quite pleased with the deal I am being offered. It has improved steadily over the last week as I have pushed them to get us to the same monthly payment with the lowest possible deposit contribution from us. The current proposal is for a 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance, rear parking sensors and dualogic box. (I want to go for Volare Blue this time but my daughter dislikes it and my wife is unsure, and wants to minimise the cost, so we have ended up back in a white one.) So the same car.

3 year finance deal
£709 deposit from us
£1000 deposit contribution from Fiat
£1,800 equity in our car (effectively a £7,400 trade in)
£129 a month over three years (5,000 miles pa)
£5,600 final balloon payment/guaranteed future value.​

So go on. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

If your 500 has only 15K and you looking to get the exact same one again I really don't see the point in changing it. The maintenance bits that will need doing is small money. The only issue is finding the c.£5K to own it out right. If this is a problem then I would nearly be tempted to sell it and see if you can survive with one car. If you still hanker for another 500 you can always strike another finance deal.

 

[RobinPJ]

Did you consider the TA for a change?

I did, and would love one. But if we swap the idea is to keep the cost down as low as possible. So it was ruled out. (I drive into the congestion charge zone during its operating hours maybe once a year at most, and in any event this car will never be built in time to catch the end of June cut off for congestion charge registration.)

 

[RobinPJ]

If your 500 has only 15K and you looking to get the exact same one again I really don't see the point in changing it. The maintenance bits that will need doing is small money. The only issue is finding the c.£5K to own it out right. If this is a problem then I would nearly be tempted to sell it and see if you can survive with one car. If you still hanker for another 500 you can always strike another finance deal.

True, but if we buy it outright in three years time it is going to be pretty tired and not worth a lot.

The other thing about selling it is that I wouldn't want to trade it in, I'd want to sell it privately. But my wife has a pathological hatred of strangers coming round the house to kick tyres and hand over snide £50 notes.

 

[Super Uwe]

I think it sounds like a really nice deal to be honest. I know what you mean about having a certain peace of mind starting over again, and with the configuration being the same it's not like you'll have to get used to it!

Option "4" which you might want to consider is simply giving your car back. People might say that's nuts, but at the end of the day you've enjoyed three years of hassle free motoring, and you won't have anything else to pay (assuming the car is in good nick etc). Then maybe you can try without a second car for a few months to see how well you get on; you might be surprised how well you get on just having the one car?

Also - if you do decide to actually purchase the car, it's worth having a look at some of the balance transfer deals available; you could pay off the balloon payment by card and then transfer it to a 0% deal or low APR balance-for-life deal if you are short of immediate cash. That could help to reduce your monthly payments to a certain extent as you would still own the car but be able to exert some control over how much you wanted to pay off each month. And then if you did sell the car privately (hopefully at a reasonable deal), you could settle up the debt on the credit card and with any luck have some money left over.

Good luck with it all anyway!

 

[loveshandbags]

True, but if we buy it outright in three years time it is going to be pretty tired and not worth a lot.

The other thing about selling it is that I wouldn't want to trade it in, I'd want to sell it privately. But my wife has a pathological hatred of strangers coming round the house to kick tyres and hand over snide £50 notes.

Like the idea from Superuwe on the low apr for the baloon payment. If you ran the 500 into the ground it will cost you very little in real terms. Here we have 5 year warranty on all new fiats and given the mileage you're doing and it being a 2nd car can't see the justification in getting a new one. Unless of course you want a new one.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

you could take out a loan for £6000 and buy a aftermarket fully comprehensive warrantee for three years, take your £700 deposit and pay that off the loan after a month or so which depending on the deal can seriously reduce the monthly repayment or term of the deal

its still a relatively new car and isn't going to suddenly catastrophically fail and regular servicing and maintenance will prevent any serious issues.

 

[306maxi]

You know my thoughts I'd keep your current car. It's not going to need that much work doing in the next 3 years anyway. Sure it'll be worth not a lot at 6 years, but the new car will depreciate too.

 

[ahmett]

... by me.

So we have a 2010 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance. Totally standard with the exception of rear parking sensors (because my wife cannot drive) and a dualogic gearbox (because my wife really cannot drive). It has done 15,400 miles in the three years that we have owned it.

It has run faultlessly bar one timing issue when it was a week old. Passed its MOT last week. The seats could do with a steam clean and both front alloys have been mangled (because my wife really really cannot drive) and need a proper refurb.

Anyway, the point is we bought it on finance. With a £2,500 deposit we have paid £128 a month for the last three years. Our final balloon payment is coming up, and is about £5,600. So now we have some choices:

First option: find £5,600 and buy the car and keep it.

Second option: sell the car having cleared the finance, leaving us some amount of cash.

Third option: chop it in for a new one.

The upside of the first option is of course that we would then own the car outright and have no more monthly payments to make. The downsides would be (i) that we have to find £5,600 that we don't have and (ii) we start to get into the murky waters of things wearing out and/or possibly breaking. Other than annual services (plus fuel and insurance and the purchase price) the car has not cost us anything to run. That clearly won't go on forever, and the brakes will need doing soon. I'm also worried about the door handles and the boot wiring as the car gets quite a lot of abuse from the family as it is used on the school run twice a day. Of course, it may be that with brakes fitted by an indie it would be cost free for another couple of years, but it is a gamble. I suspect it will need tyres in a year or two as well.

The upside of the second option would be that we get a couple of grand cash. But the downside would be that we would have to live with just one car (a Golf). Even though I commute by bike and train, with kids now rising 15 and 10, there are times when we do need a second car. Not that many times, true, and it is a luxury to have both 500 and the VW. Oh, and I'd have to flog off my winter tyres and wheels.

The upside of the third option would be to keep out outgoings the same, and get a new car with a new warranty, so hopefully not incurring any unexpected expenses. The downside is that we are still shelling out cash every month.

Having given it quite a bit of thought I think that we are going to take the third option. With that in mind I have got some figures from my local dealer, and I am quite pleased with the deal I am being offered. It has improved steadily over the last week as I have pushed them to get us to the same monthly payment with the lowest possible deposit contribution from us. The current proposal is for a 1.2 Lounge in BNW with ivory ambiance, rear parking sensors and dualogic box. (I want to go for Volare Blue this time but my daughter dislikes it and my wife is unsure, and wants to minimise the cost, so we have ended up back in a white one.) So the same car.

3 year finance deal
£709 deposit from us
£1000 deposit contribution from Fiat
£1,800 equity in our car (effectively a £7,400 trade in)
£129 a month over three years (5,000 miles pa)
£5,600 final balloon payment/guaranteed future value.
​

So go on. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Robin, I agree with you completely. For a family that has many outgoings just like all EU families with all the ridiculous expenses of the modern world, the 3 year plans are the most suitable and that is why most British families do it and have new cars without any hassle.

Good luck on the new purchase, you make yourselves and the dealer happy without you forking out any more cash than you are already doing so.

Buying cars cash are for car enthusiasts mainly and while I am sure you like your cars, your professional and family life means that you just don't have the time/willingness to fix everything on your car DIY.

So they are valuing the new car at 13753 GBP?

 

[Super Uwe]

You know my thoughts I'd keep your current car. It's not going to need that much work doing in the next 3 years anyway. Sure it'll be worth not a lot at 6 years, but the new car will depreciate too.

Despite what I said, I do agree with a lot of what you say here. Suppose this highlights one of the unintended benefits of the flexible finance deals in that there are so many different options available at the end of the term.

BTW - I took a look at the Parkers website and typed in the details for a 2008/08 plate 1.2 Lounge Dualogic. See this link:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/prices/used/fiat/500/hatchback-2008/39097/?yearplate=87

Of course things might change in the next couple of years, but it is encouraging to see that an identical car to RobinPJ's (albeit 2 years older) could still fetch essentially the same amount in P/X as the balloon payment he's got to pay now. But even that one is based on mileage of 50k, so you'd think there is probably another £100-200 to extract from the dealer in P/X given his car's lower mileage.

As for its value in year 6, I think you'd be more than justified based on these figures in assuming a P/X value in excess of £5k, which isn't too bad at all!

All food for thought anyway...

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Of course things might change in the next couple of years, but it is encouraging to see that an identical car to RobinPJ's (albeit 2 years older) could still fetch essentially the same amount in P/X as the balloon payment he's got to pay now. But even that one is based on mileage of 50k, so you'd think there is probably another £100-200 to extract from the dealer in P/X given his car's lower mileage.

i think you've misunderstood the 'baloon payment' or minimum guaranteed value.

basically the dealer says after 3 years your car will be worth at least this amount and that is how much you will have left to pay, the idea being you can't end up owing more than the car is worth.

if you used car market crashes badly and the car is only worth £2k after 3 years its the dealer left out of pocket as they still have to guarantee that the car is worth £5600

if you read above you'll see that in this case the dealers have valued the car at £7400 which gives some equity towards the new car as well as paying off the old car

 

[RobinPJ]

Robin, I agree with you completely. For a family that has many outgoings just like all EU families with all the ridiculous expenses of the modern world, the 3 year plans are the most suitable and that is why most British families do it and have new cars without any hassle.

Good luck on the new purchase, you make yourselves and the dealer happy without you forking out any more cash than you are already doing so.

Buying cars cash are for car enthusiasts mainly and while I am sure you like your cars, your professional and family life means that you just don't have the time/willingness to fix everything on your car DIY.

So they are valuing the new car at 13753 GBP?

They are offering the new car at £12,080. The total cost including interest is 13,884. £12,090 is about £300 off the full list price.

Thanks to everyone else for your contributions too.

 

[ahmett]

They are offering the new car at £12,080. The total cost including interest is 13,884. £12,090 is about £300 off the full list price.

Thanks to everyone else for your contributions too.

Yeah that decent especially as Fiat is contributing money to the deposit so the interest really isn't that high in reality.

 

[The Littlest Hobo]

I have another suggestion that may have made this decision a little easier this time.How about stating your mileage at 20-25,000mls per annum.This has the effect of increasing your monthly payments artificialy but also reduces the GFV by the same amount thus putting you right in control of things at the end of the contract.I did this with the wifes car which is doing even less mileage and we plan to pay it off at the end of the 3 yrs.

 

[RobinPJ]

I have another suggestion that may have made this decision a little easier this time.How about stating your mileage at 20-25,000mls per annum.This has the effect of increasing your monthly payments artificialy but also reduces the GFV by the same amount thus putting you right in control of things at the end of the contract.I did this with the wifes car which is doing even less mileage and we plan to pay it off at the end of the 3 yrs.

I can see the sense in that, but we are keen to keep our monthly outgoings at no higher than their current level.

 

[306maxi]

I can see the sense in that, but we are keen to keep our monthly outgoings at no higher than their current level.

How much would a loan for the outstanding finance cost each month over the same period?

 

[Melanabb]

I'd go for the second option... Keep the cash safe until you decide if you can be 'one car family' and if not - you can use it as a deposit for the next car (with some money left in the kitty), if yes - you can splash on a nice holiday or similar... Due to my hubby writing off his car 4 years ago (very similar car driving abilities to your wife, it seems), we ended up with my 500 as an only car with a toddler in tow - no problems! Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[loveshandbags]

I can see the sense in that, but we are keen to keep our monthly outgoings at no higher than their current level.

If you 'dropped' to a pop model then it might work.

 

[306maxi]

I'd go for the second option... Keep the cash safe until you decide if you can be 'one car family' and if not - you can use it as a deposit for the next car (with some money left in the kitty), if yes - you can splash on a nice holiday or similar... Due to my hubby writing off his car 4 years ago (very similar car driving abilities to your wife, it seems), we ended up with my 500 as an only car with a toddler in tow - no problems! Good luck with whatever you decide!

1 car? Booooooring! We've got 4