Technical My 1982 spider is cranking itself with no key. Help me please

[ciaran13611]

Hello all!

My name is ciaran, I’m 19, and I got a 1982 fiat 124 spider as a project car a few months ago.

After a lot of care and maintenance, (throttle body heater coolant cap, intake hoses, filters, plugs, wires) I got it to start up every time after just a couple cranks, so I was getting excited to do more work (diff, bearings, brakes, cosmetic) and get it ready for summer.

I had it running one night and it bogged down and started jumping and shut itself off. I haven’t gotten it back running.

I replaced the fuel pump after checking some things, but still not working. I plugged in a new Bosch fuel injection combination relay, along with all new fresh fuses and relays.

Where I am at right now:
With the ignition switch completely disconnected:
- When I try to connect the battery, it tries to crank over???
- when I disconnect the “auto trans starter relay” it only tries to run the fuel pump, with the battery connected (and key still out)

I’m honestly very confused why it’s trying to start without the key in and/or ignition switch disconnected. I didn’t know if maybe some other people have had similar things happen, so I figured I’d shoot my shot on here.

Thank you for reading and please let me know if you might have some insight.

Have a good day!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Pull all the relays out. Connect the battery see if it tries to crank. If not put the relays in one by one till you replicate the fault.

I think you maybe have a relay inserted incorrectly or it’s the wrong type of relay? Basically sending power to the starter all the time

 

[ciaran13611]

Pull all the relays out. Connect the battery see if it tries to crank. If not put the relays in one by one till you replicate the fault.

I think you maybe have a relay inserted incorrectly or it’s the wrong type of relay? Basically sending power to the starter all the time

I will try this troubleshooting method. Thank you. I don’t believe I have them Inserted incorrectly. Parts were bought from https://autoricambi.us

The Bosch combo relay part # is 0 332 514 127

But, it’s to my understanding that’s there’s a 0 332 514 121 as well which is basically the same thing. Not sure if it matters but the numbers on the side of the one I got are 0 332 514 121B

I’m gonna go try your suggestion

 

[ciaran13611]

Update:
it seems the auto trans starter relay can be installed after battery hookup and not crank over the car.

Which means the only issue now is the fuel pump kicking on when plugging in the combo relay. To be specific it’s only the right side of the turning the pump on.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

so with all other relays inserted except this combo relay, the car isn't trying to start itself?

Its only once you plug this relay in that you get problems ?

I don't know the full ins and outs of the 124 spider electrical system but is it only one side of the relay unit that is used? this is not clear from your comments?

 

[ciaran13611]

so with all other relays inserted except this combo relay, the car isn't trying to start itself?

Its only once you plug this relay in that you get problems ?

I don't know the full ins and outs of the 124 spider electrical system but is it only one side of the relay unit that is used? this is not clear from your comments?

So even with all other relays out or in. With the battery connected first, plugging the right side of the combo relay causes the fuel pump to turn on. The “right side” is the one pictured, it connects to the tan old plastic connector pictured. The other side connects straight into the ecu which is just to the right of the drop down relay tray.

Between these electrical issues currently, and I still have to figure out the headlights. I was thinking I might have to take it someone to get at least the electrical figured out.

Other than the electrical issues, the engine is in great shape @70k miles, and of course quite a bit of cosmetic work needs to be done too.

 

[s130]

I may be out of sync / line with this post but:

1) The relay unit you are showing will not be able to carry starter current
2) The relay unit probably only supplies voltage to the starter solenoid
3) Starter solenoid in probably stuck closed
4) Starter solenoid may be integrated with the starter motor

I think you need to disconnect the heavy duty main starter motor cable from the starter motor and diagnose / work back from there.

 

[ciaran13611]

I may be out of sync / line with this post but:

1) The relay unit you are showing will not be able to carry starter current
2) The relay unit probably only supplies voltage to the starter solenoid
3) Starter solenoid in probably stuck closed
4) Starter solenoid may be integrated with the starter motor

I think you need to disconnect the heavy duty main starter motor cable from the starter motor and diagnose / work back from there.

Huh. I hadn’t thought about that. Like if the starter is getting power when it shouldn’t it could be something to do with the starter? Instead of something to do up top. A new lead at the very least. Gonna do more research. Thank you very much

 

[gengis]

Hi Ciaran,

You may have more than one issue here…It sounds like your starter circuit is being energized from a faulty ignition switch, check the switching arrangements of the ignition switch first. It may be that the double relay set (the right hand side connector with the coloured wiring not the bosch white wiring connector) is being sent the wrong signal volts from a faulty ignition switch i.e. starter circuit and ignition circuit constantly energized. The fuel pump should only come on when the AFM (air flow meter) takes it’s first gulp of air via a normally open set of contacts…closes when flap moves. **Please also disconnect the battery when not working on the car – there is an electrical fault!**