Technical Multipla cuts out @junctions etc

[morleyclan]

Hi. My wifes 2001 Multipla 1.6 ELX has developed an annoying, potentially dangerous fault. When slowing down to approach traffic lights / junctions / give way etc. the car stalls ( Engine cuts out. Not everytime, but more often than not ). This is usually whilst the car is still moving at a slow speed. The car runs OK at speed and does not stall when cold ( I assume this is due to automatic choke increasing the revs ). The car also stalls ( not everytime, but more often than not ), when turning slowly around a sharp corner. It is noticeable this is when the foot is on the clutch and she is coasting slowly around a corner or coming to a stop. This is potentially dangerous as the power steering stops working and the brakes do not work as efficiently ( Due to engine / servo not working ).

Any ideas anyone ?

Thanking you in advance !

 

[combwork]

Hi. My wifes 2001 Multipla 1.6 ELX has developed an annoying, potentially dangerous fault. When slowing down to approach traffic lights / junctions / give way etc. the car stalls ( Engine cuts out. Not everytime, but more often than not ). This is usually whilst the car is still moving at a slow speed. The car runs OK at speed and does not stall when cold ( I assume this is due to automatic choke increasing the revs ). The car also stalls ( not everytime, but more often than not ), when turning slowly around a sharp corner. It is noticeable this is when the foot is on the clutch and she is coasting slowly around a corner or coming to a stop. This is potentially dangerous as the power steering stops working and the brakes do not work as efficiently ( Due to engine / servo not working ).

Any ideas anyone ?


It sounds as if the engine is simply stalling through lack of fuel; could the tickover/throttle stop adjustment have been disturbed? One thing maybe worth trying is a good dose of injector cleaner in the fuel tank and a long run, especially if the car's used mostly for slow local driving. If this doesn't help, best thing would be to find a garage with the equipment to read diagnostic codes from the engine management system......... Jim.

 

[T14086]

Hi. My wifes 2001 Multipla 1.6 ELX has developed an annoying, potentially dangerous fault. When slowing down to approach traffic lights / junctions / give way etc. the car stalls ( Engine cuts out. Not everytime, but more often than not ). This is usually whilst the car is still moving at a slow speed. The car runs OK at speed and does not stall when cold ( I assume this is due to automatic choke increasing the revs ). The car also stalls ( not everytime, but more often than not ), when turning slowly around a sharp corner. It is noticeable this is when the foot is on the clutch and she is coasting slowly around a corner or coming to a stop. This is potentially dangerous as the power steering stops working and the brakes do not work as efficiently ( Due to engine / servo not working ).

Any ideas anyone ?

Thanking you in advance !

When did car last have a good service? judging by previous posts you recently got the car.It would be wise to give the car a service & if done at garage get codes read...could be anything from fuel/air/electrical/CPS/throttle potentiometer etc

 

[morleyclan]

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys. I have booked my wifes car in for an engine diagnostic test today - Fingers crossed ! The car came with a full service history and should have been serviced in April 2007. However, having looked at the plugs and oil level I am begining to doubt the level of service carried out ! I'll get a service done and await the diagnostic results!

I'll report back once the problem has been sorted to help anyone else with a similar problem. In the meantime, if anyone else has any comments to make they will be greatfully received as diagnostic tests don't always reveal the source of the problem !

Cheers

 

[JTDman]

Sounds like the idle control valve is coked up , it should be on the throttle body but im not familiar with the petrol multi
Get down to halfrauds and get some wynns carb cleaner .
Remove said item blast it out a good few times re fit and all should be well hopefully it only takes ten minutes and about £4 for the spray.

 

[morleyclan]

Thanks JTDman / combwork / T14086 - I'll arrange to have the carb cleaned out this weekend as part of a service. The computer diagnosis highlighted 'High Pressure Readings', possible cause, problem with stepper motor ( part of injection body ). No obvious faults were found but recommended replacing above unit which is very costly. A mechanic I know says this is an unlikely cause of the car cutting out as the pressure reading is high, not low ! The diagnosis also threw up a logged TDC sensor error but the garage who carried out the test AND the local Fiat Dealer have said this is an unlikely cause of my problem as the car starts starts OK ! However, others I have spoken to seem to think this 'could' be the problem !

I am therefore no wiser than before ! Hopefully, a good service and carb clean, together with a good dose of injector cleaner will do the trick !

In the meantime, any further suggestions will be greatfully received !

 

[Napoli]

Hi I have the same problem with my 04 JTD, died on me this morning and I took it to the local Fiat dealer. They have diagnosed a faulty RPM sensor. They have also noted that my Turbo is on this way out.

 

[T14086]

Thanks JTDman / combwork / T14086 - I'll arrange to have the carb cleaned out this weekend as part of a service. The computer diagnosis highlighted 'High Pressure Readings', possible cause, problem with stepper motor ( part of injection body ). No obvious faults were found but recommended replacing above unit which is very costly. A mechanic I know says this is an unlikely cause of the car cutting out as the pressure reading is high, not low ! The diagnosis also threw up a logged TDC sensor error but the garage who carried out the test AND the local Fiat Dealer have said this is an unlikely cause of my problem as the car starts starts OK ! However, others I have spoken to seem to think this 'could' be the problem !

I am therefore no wiser than before ! Hopefully, a good service and carb clean, together with a good dose of injector cleaner will do the trick !

In the meantime, any further suggestions will be greatfully received !

OK lets clear up a few things before we get led down the 'garden path'

It has no carb or idle valve...idle is controlled by throttle body.

TDC error..........mmmm sounds likely i'm afraid,multiplas often through up the following error;

'incoherence between VSS & timing sensor signals'

....basically the VSS signal is different from the TDC signal,unfortunally this results 9 out of 10 times with a faulty timing sensor...often this is mounted behind timing belt.

I'd try cleaning throttle body flap first...look in stilo section & you will see how to do it.

 

[johne]

I would guess the 'stepper motor error' is the cause of your problem. If it's anything like my old '99 Alfa 146 then the stepper motor acts on the throttle flap to keep it open enough to stop stalling, in theory, but if the flap gets dirty and gummed up then the stepper motor has problems. Some people call this stepper motor/throttle valve set up the idle actuator valve, but that title should really refer to the previous generation idle control system that had a seperate throttle bypass with its own valve - and was even more likely to get gummed up.
Don't try to take the stepper motor apart and be very careful cleaning the valve in case you upset the zero position. If you do then it'll be another trip to the dealer or auto electric specialist to get everything reset.

 

[morleyclan]

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, I appreciate it.

I'm having the car serviced tomorrow and the throttle flap valve cleaned. Fingers crossed. If not, the issue of the TDC sensor keeps coming up !!! ......... Anyway I'll wait and see. Hopefully, I won't have to commence Plan F !!

Any further comments are still welcome !

 

[JTDman]

On some cars with a dual mass flywheel , the flywheel can have too much movement and the crank sensor picks this up usually giving a missfire .
Im no expert on the Multi ive not owned it long but when i changed my clutch i was concerned about the play on the flywheel but i had no choice but to carry on fitting the new clutch as was not prepared for flywheel problems .

 

[morleyclan]

Good evening guys - Thanks to everyone who have responded to my problem.

Update - Had the Multipla serviced this weekend. In addition to the normal service, the mechanic cleaned out the throttle body flap & adjusted the tickover ( car ticking over at 500 rpm ). Added 'stuff' to the petrol. Then took the car for a 'good run !'.

Unfortunately, problem still there ! Car starts ok, runs fine at speed, but upon slowing down at a junction, traffic lights, traffic jam etc.. the revs die out and the car stalls. ( Not everytime, but more often than not ! ).

Next plan of action is to follow the advice of a number of 'others' who have suggested that the TDC sensor needs replacing. Any ideas how this is done ?

Thanks again for your comments !

 

[T14086]

Next plan of action is to follow the advice of a number of 'others' who have suggested that the TDC sensor needs replacing. Any ideas how this is done ?

Thanks again for your comments !

behind the camshaft...timing belt off job

 

[morleyclan]

Oh bugger !

Any chance you can clarify what other name the Fiat dealer will know this sensor as. Having spoken to the parts department, the Fiat guy informs me there is no such thing as a TDC sensor. It is either a Crankshaft sensor or ( ? something else which I've now forgotten ! ).

I won't be fitting the sensor myself but I don't want to ask the garage to fit the wrong sensor !

Thanks again

 

[T14086]

phase sensor.......

....this normally brings up following error;

'incoherence between VSS & phase sensor signals'....this can be proved by scoping out phase signal.Get it checked first (wether crank sensor or timing sensor is faulty or wiring) as it will be expensive to replace & often best to renew timing belt at same time.

 

[morleyclan]

Hi T14086 - Thanks once again for your reply.

As you are aware, I have only had the Multipla for a few weeks and basically bought the car with this problem ( Bought car from auctions so no warranty etc .. ). However, I have been in contact with the previous owner to ask a few questions. Guess what ? It appears that the Multipla has recently had a cam belt change ! The previous owner sold due to these on-going problems and other minor issues ( which I have been able to resolve. ) The cutting out started almost immediately the belt had been changed but the owner was assured the belt had been fitted properly !

It is my assumption therefore that changing the cam belt has affected the sensor in this location, causing the problems!

I have booked the car in at a garage to have the TDC sensor changed which lies behind the cambelt as this appears to be the most logical solution in view of the recent cam belt change. As the cam belt needs to be removed to access this sensor, this should also rectify any problems with the recent fitting of the cam belt, if there are any !

My question therefore is - Which sensor is this ? Is it the Crank Sensor or Timing Sensor ? ( or the Phase Sensor !!? ). In addition, where is the other sensor(s) ? If both sensors require the timing belt to be removed I may as well have them both changed at the same time ! If not, I'll start with the one behind the cam belt, and if this fails, consider changing the other one, which hopefully is easier to remove !

I appreciate this sounds a bit of a tangled web, but there are too many sensors to understand !!! It's the one associated close to the cam belt that concerns me most of all !!

Hope this makes sense - I appreciate your ( and everyone elses ) time !

 

[T14086]

ok...problem here is sensors are often called by different names........

crank sensor (or CPS or RPM sensor) is positioned at back of engine (need it up on ramps to see it) and 'induces' a signal from the flywheel.

TDC (or phase or timing sensor) is behind the camshaft pulley thus behind the timing belt.If the belt was recently changed then you can get away with using it again but considering its price might aswell fit new one.It's very possible as you say that the TDC/phase/timing sensor has been damaged or its wiring when belt was changed,this is common when doing a timing belt change on alfas.You can pull back the timing cover & with a torch inspect the sensor.

Hope this helps & hope car works ok afterwards!

 

[morleyclan]

Hi T14086. Thanks for your swift response. I'll let you know how it goes. Car booked in on Thursday !

 

[T14086]

Your welcome,good luck

 

[andy thrill]

hi guys,i have exactly the same problem on my 02 115 jtd ,really anoying as ive just given this car to my wife to get the kids to and from school,i also get the error message low oil pressure as the car is stalling,or more like cutting out.ive recently had the car serviced and they put too much oil in which i thought might be the problem but took the car to the garage today to be told that the link up pc gave out a rpm sensor fault message,does anybody know how much this s likely to cost to repair,ive just about had it with fiats all they have ever done is let me down