Technical More clutch woes

[widemouthfrog]

This is my first thread on here and I'm new to Multipla ownership, so hello everyone!

I thought I'd add my experiences with sorting out the clutch on my car in the hope that it may save someone else the pain and expense that I've endured.

I've had the car about 3 weeks; an 04-plate 115 JTD ELX. One owner, full Fiat service history, but a bit leggy (107k miles). When I bought it, the clutch felt a bit heavy and the bite point was only about 1 - 1.5 inches from the floor, but it worked smoothly enough and I could get it into all gears ok.

Got in the car last Sunday morning and found that I could no longer get it into any gear with the engine running, even with the clutch right to the floor. So, having read some of the posts on here, I thought I'd read up as to what the problem might be. The clutch pedal was returning to its' correct height and I had no strange noises or vibrations when I depressed the pedal, so figured it might well be the clutch master cylinder that was at fault. Duly booked it in at my local Fiat dealer and had both the master cylinder and slave cylinder replaced (the dealer said that getting access to the master cylinder was the pig and once that had been acheived, fitting the slave at the same time would add little more than the cost of the part to the job. Grand total for their troubles: a not inconsiderable £402.30 inc. parts and VAT. Of this, the two cylinders were about £47 and £30 a piece and brake fluid about £8, so you can see that the majority of the cost is in labour. Moral: don't be prescriptive when asking the dealer to look at a problem. I might have had a leg to stand on if I'd simply gone into the dealers and said 'I think I've got a problem with my clutch'.

Did it fix it? Did it heck. I still had problems getting it into gear (though perhaps it is slightly easier) and the clutch bite point is still close to the floor. The dealer phoned to suggest that it might be the clutch itself that needs replacing. Cost? A trifling £588. Gulp. At that sort of price, he must be calling form the Bahamas thought I.

So I cut my losses, upped the car and moved it to a non-franchised Fiat/Alfa specialist and asked them to look at it. 'Clutch shouldn't be that heavy' was his initial reaction, suggexting that it is indeed the clutch itself at fault.

So, I've now ordered a Fast Road (read 'Heavy Duty') clutch from CG Motorsports and will have that fitted next week. I'll report back when that's done. The clutch kit is just over £160 delivered and fitting by the non-franchised specialist about £180, so even with the beefier clutch, it still comes in considerably cheaper than the Fiat option. CG say that the clutch springs and friction plate in the Fast Road kit are no different to their standard kit (all parts are Valeo), but the fingers in the pressure plate are beefed up so transfer more pressure/flex less. The cluch pedal action should be no heavier (we'll see). I went for the stronger clutch because I may well get Angel Tuning to breathe on the car at some future date, and I've read many reports of clutch slip being a problem.

Thus far, my pain has been less of the spanner rash and seized-bolt-frustration as experienced by bikes-for-me (you are a very brave soul, fella) but more about severe wallet depletion. The whole clutch-replacement thing seems to be an achilles heel for the JTD Multiplas and it could do with a sticky to offer some step-by-step advice. At the moment, the only people suffering are us owners.

And if anyone's still awake after reading that lot, you deserve a medal!

 

[JTDman]

I hate the way dealers do exactly what they are told instead of offering some real advice based on their knowledge of said car, I can allmost hear the mechanics " dont know why these parts are being replaced its the clutch thats fecked!".
The clutch change on the multi is not a hard job its just myself and bikes for me are guys just trying to have a go so its gonna seem a lot worse than it is.
Proper garage with right tools and im sure its done in one day.
Good luck with yours , the clutch you bought is it anythink to do with techniclutch who advertises on ebay? I only ask as the speil sounds the same.
Although in reality when i bought one off him for my alfa it seems it was only the springs that were uprated and not the fingers although it did amuse me that they go to the trouble to paint the main body red(oooh sporty) .
Let us know how you get on and where your getting the work done.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Hi JTDman - your reputation precedes you. CG Motorsport are clutch.gearboxltd on ebay. Their own website is better than the ebay shop. They appear to build up their own clutches from stock components, so can within reason create a custom clutch for any application (they advertise this fact for kit car builders etc on their website).

The non-franchised dealer is Optima, just outside Swindon, Wiltshire. I got his contact details from this forum, but I have driven by the place so many times in the past I don't know why I didn't think of taking the car there in the first place. He seems to have a good write-up on here and so far has been very helpful (we'll soon test that....) but I'll give more feedback next week.

It was interesting that CG said that their Fast Road clutch uses standard springs and friction plate. The premium over their standard Multipla clutch is something like 60%, so it'll be interesting to see whether Optima think it's worth the extra outlay.

I've got loads of other questions to ask about my Multi, but I'll takes things one item at a time - it makes things a lot easier for others to follow when searching for a particular topic.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Sorry to hear about your problem,funny because i had the very same problem but you could lightly hear the clutch release bearing when clutch pedal fully down.I bleed the clutch and the clutch slave,which now made it better but not 100%.After a few days it was back to square one,so i saw a fiat clutch kit on ebay for £120 posted,the proper fiat one not pattern part.
I could just afford it but would have to do the work myself,and just hope flywheel was ok.Well when i got it to bits,the clutch release bearing was in bits and the clutch was full of scratchers and marks.
To be honest if you take your time lube everything up with wd40 for a few days before,its not too bad if you drop the subframe .I am putting my back now,hoping to spend sunday on it and finish it off.Its taking me longer because i have not done it before and i had some problems with seized bolts and nuts.I just took my time and have spent time cleaning everything up.Make sure the gearbox mainshaft seal and the drivers side gearbox drive shaft seal is replaced.For the sake of £10 it saves a lot of work if they fail latter.
Hearing from people like JTDMAN helps a great deal,its what makes this forum.I have made some notes and took some photos and when i finish and get time,i will put a how to change your clutch post.I am no expert but have learnt a few things doing it,and would do it slightly different,if i ever have to do it again.
JTDMAN you gave me the go up and do it,nearly finished then its work on the alfa.

 

[JTDman]

 

[widemouthfrog]

Ok. I've had the clutch done. Chris at Optima had a few days holiday so I didn't get the Multipla back until a couple of days ago.

I'm glad to report that the clutch is now working perfectly. The pedal action with the CG Motorsports fast road clutch is heavy at all (certainly lighter than the old clutch when it was on the way out). Pedal bite point is now a lot further off of the floor - I'd say somewhere around half way down the total pedal travel. Pick up is smooth, as you'd expect with a standard friction plate. Chris at Optima said it didn't look a whole lot different to a standard clutch, but the fingers on the pressure plate were a bit beefier. It's too early to give an unreserved recommendation, but so far the clutch seems good. I've tried playing silly buggers with it and there's no sign of any slip at all.

Optima charged £223 inc. VAT to fit the clutch. Unfortunately, one of the connections on the engine thermostat got broken in the course of changing the clutch, so I had to cough up another £90 to replace that . Total bill to buy and fit the clutch (ignoring the thermostat, ahem) was £385 inc VAT. This is about a £200 saving over having Fiat do it, and I got a stronger clutch into the bargain (I hope).

All I need to do now is erase the cost of the master and slave cylinder from my memory (and my Visa bill). That was a needless expense.