General Major problem with 1.1 engine?

[mark1962]

Total shambles.....
Hire car not arranged till mid afternoon then what they required (us fetch us pay deposit etc )just not acceptable. Dealer has not completed requests from fiat technical so i assume my car is back of yard/workshop being ignored.
Have messaged Chris Smith as the phone number he gave is constantly engaged.
Basically i want no more to do with anything fiat and want out of finance agreement and have told him so, I couldn't get hold of finance company today as my details were at home, but i will tommow
Enough is enough

 

[Creamola]

Let's just have a little recap:

THREE weeks ago, Marks Panda failed and was carted to his local dealer for repairs under warranty.

While at the dealer, Fiat apparently removed the franchise from them - and after much complaint and giving Mark the total runaround - shipped the car via the AA to another dealer 30 miles away.

Three weeks later, and the car still remains unfixed with a dealer who screens customer calls using an answerphone.

Chris Smith of Fiat Customer Services says "we will take any action to ensure the vehicle is to the customers satisfaction".

Yeah - like what Chris? Given that we have seen a big fat zero from you so far.

As a result of this forum, my current Panda will be my last Fiat. Not because there is anything wrong with it, but I don't want to ever risk being put in a similar position as Mark - i.e. to have anything go wrong for which I have to call on Fiat Customer Services for support.

 

[mark1962]

not had any reply on private messaging yet,going to copy my finance paperwork and take to work with me so that if i get chance lunchtime i can contact the finance company to see how i stand with them

 

[Sprox]

If FIAT removed the Franchise from the Dealership - maybe it was because they had too many complaints regarding the dealership? In which case, FIAT have done the right thing by ALL it's customers. However, it might be just bad luck that the new dealership that the car went to was just as bad or even worse! FIAT might just have to do the same thing there!

In my experience of working in a dealership - the customers who go in shouting (for whatever reason) and having a ruck get the worst service.

Chris Smith has done the right thing - it's not his personal fault that the dealership was crap. It is good that he is intervening and it is not required that he make a public comment on this forum.

Let's hope that FIAT manage to pull this one out of the hat and restore our faith in the system!

 

[Steven]

This entire situation is way beyond redemption at this point.

Any action taken now is far too late. This is officially a balls up. Who can blame the man for walking away from Fiat, and how many people will read this and decide not to buy a Fiat? More than one of two I'd say. That's a shame because the Panda is a bloody good little car, but with every car, no matter who produces it, you always get the occasional lemon. It's how Fiat deals with those lemons that sets them apart as inadequate.

We're lucky in Belfast to have a fantastic dealer in Mervyn Stewart, nothing is too much trouble for them, but some of the stories I've heard about dealers in England is nothing short of shocking.

 

[Nuova500]

Agree with Steve, although I had a different problem I had equally bad treatment from my dealer. I didnt shout but still got appaling service. I fully understand you not wanting another Fiat and out of your agreement financially. The only way I got things moving in the end was to go down there, demand to speak to a manager who is responsible for your car and then calmly but firmly tell them what you want. However, you have been promised things and let down by Fiat, unfortunately for you and others, customer service is anything but and will never help you out... calling them just annoys the dealer involved, so they help less. Its a catch 22. Best of luck, dont give up on Fiats though... just new ones and the dealer network! I wonder how the new customers of Fiat, who are awaiting their new Puntos will feel when they have problems... probably the same as the new Alfa customers felt when they bought 156s hoping for customer service and were let down badly.

 

[mark1962]

I can't even get out of this via finance agreement seems its a loan and not HP as i thought.
Did speak to Chris Smith today very apologetic am awaiting a private message from him after he stated he would chase things up between his technical department and dealer.....
wish the car would set itself on fire i d have more luck with the insurance lol

 

[Shunter]

My 53 reg Sporting was reported to the dealer within 3 weeks from new with engine knocking (piston slap) when cold and a loud rattle under the bonnet.
Piston slap was indeed diagnosed but the answer was seemingly that it was OK if the noise went away in 30 seconds. When I told them it was longer than that, the time limit was revised to 60 seconds. When I told them it lasted up to 5 minutes the final answer from Fiat was that it was nothing and wouldn't damage the engine at all. When I told them I wanted it put right, I got excuse after excuse and it eventually took exactly a year and 9000 miles before they fixed it.

In the meantime over a 21 month period the rattle had an alternator thrown at it then new belts then new belts then new belts ( no its not a misprint ) then a crankshaft pulley then another alternator which was incorrectly fitted and damaged the belt guard and the belt so then new belts again. When I had the temerity to mention that everything in the drivebelt line had been replaced and could it be the air con compressor, the answer was NO, they don't give any problems.
After about 21 months I took it to another Fiat dealer, and youv'e guessed it, it was the air con compressor. New one on and the (now very noisy rattle) was gone. BUT Fiat refused to cover under the warranty and I had to pay nearly £400 to get my car back. It then took 6 months and going to the small claims court to get my money back.

During all this time the engine kept cutting out and had a new instrument cluster fitted, a new body computer and finally a new ignition switch.

Then after I got it back from the piston slap repair it was leaking oil from the gearbox (wasn't before) and it had to have a new oil seal.

Then a seat belt refused to return so it had a new one only that was the same and had to have another new one.

The airbag light had a period of about 3 months when it woud just come on and then it was back to the dealer to have it checked.

The dealer had it for a total of 21 days to cure a very loud annoying interior rattle and returned it in the same condition but when I took it to the second dealer, he fixed it in a morning.

I accept that new cars can have minor teehing troubles, but by no stretch of the imagination were these teething troubles.

I obviosly got a lemon, but as was posted earlier, it is not necessarily the problems with a car that will put buyers off, but it is how the manufacturer deals with them, and Fiat and the first dealer were abysmal.

I could buy another Fiat and get a good trouble free car, but I don't think I could take the chance of going through this again.

My car is running beatifully now that I have put a new battery on it and I love it's style, specs, economy and performance. For a small car it is really good and I intend to keep it for as long as it is reliable, but the minute it starts to cost, it will be gone and will not be replaced with another Fiat.

I really admire all you Fiat owners who have problems but still persevere with you Fiats, but at my age, all I want is a bit of style, a bit economy and a lot of reliability. It's a long time since I went through the stage of lying under the car in the rain etc., trying to fix it, and that stage will never return.

With hindsight, if I had known what I was letting myself in for, I would have rejected the car, but I mistakenly trusted Fiat.

This is a great site and all the info and fixes are a godsend.

Whatever way you go, I hope you get sorted

Sorry about the long post

 

[mark1962]

as expected ...he never laft any message or called...he does have our home phone number

 

[Sprox]

So you decide never to have a Fiat again so you go and buy what? A Ford? Ho Ho!

With my 16 year old Panda, I know what to expect to go wrong.!
Heater matrix, Vacuum advance, dodgy carb. etc. If it does - I bolt on new bits! No problem! I don't have to argue with any warranty claim people! IT's great! I don't worry abut my engine blowing up anymore! I'll just bolt in a new one! Hurrah! I know Panda engines don't blow up! I know that Ford CVH engines have cambelts that can snap at 16000miles! DAmage all your valves for a total engine rebuild costing over £1200 quid or the like!

Old Panda off Ebay - structurally sound £300. Brand new engine for 10 years motoring - £1800 (decent 2nd hand one £100!) do the maths and Praise the lord!

 

[mark1962]

its the structure of the company i am having a go at... i have owned two fiats before (uno and tipo diesels that were great cars for me) i just thought i would/should have had a few years without troubles and having to worry about MOT's and major part changes....i am approx £200 down in payments made for a car i haven't seen in a month (finance tax insurance).
So no i will not have anything to do with fiat again they have cooked their goose...in regard to fords i am not a lover of them either but at least there is a dealer just 4 miles away

 

[Chas Uno]

So you decide never to have a Fiat again so you go and buy what? A Ford? Ho Ho!

With my 16 year old Panda, I know what to expect to go wrong.!
Heater matrix, Vacuum advance, dodgy carb. etc. If it does - I bolt on new bits! No problem! I don't have to argue with any warranty claim people! IT's great! I don't worry abut my engine blowing up anymore! I'll just bolt in a new one! Hurrah! I know Panda engines don't blow up! I know that Ford CVH engines have cambelts that can snap at 16000miles! DAmage all your valves for a total engine rebuild costing over £1200 quid or the like!

Old Panda off Ebay - structurally sound £300. Brand new engine for 10 years motoring - £1800 (decent 2nd hand one £100!) do the maths and Praise the lord!

Like Sprox, I'm in the same situation with my 20 year old Uno!

It's a simple car, easy to fix and has been amazingly reliable (famous last words...) Bits fall off/ break every now and then, but for its age I can forgive it. It has character, is fun to drive and is the second mk1 Uno I've bought (and converted me to Fiats).

Thing is, I take it Marks Lemon Panda uses a FIRE engine? How come Fiat got the design so right at the start in 1985, yet the later versions cause problems?

I mean, the FIRE engined early Puntos, 'Centos and mk2 Unos were renowned for headgasket failure, yet early Unos and Pandas seemed fine My car is nearly 20 years old, gets thrashed everywhere (only way to drive a small Fiat :devil: ) and has only needed wear and tear parts replacing. I do service it regularly and keep it in good shape mechanically, but surely the later engines should be built to the same standards and if anything the design improved over time.

Must admit that my dealings with Fiat dealers haven't been that good, and their support for old models is poor to say the least. I get fobbed off many times by being told they can't get parts for my car, but that's only because their parts computer (like the ePer) only goes back to 1988. It doesn't take much logic to understand that MOST of the parts for a 1988 mk1 Uno are the same as a 1986 mk1 Uno :bang:

Thing is, when someone gets a good Fiat they are cracking cars with character. That's why people love them. But the dealers never seem to share that enthusiasm, which is a crying shame. Look at the enthusiasm from most owners on the forum, and it can be seen that a good Fiat generates a passion that is above the humdrum other makes.

If the dealers showed more passion (and compassion) to Fiat owners then there would be a lot more happy owners out there.

And the worst thing to me about this case is where Mark has been told he will be contacted and then the promised call never materialises. If Fiats Chris Smith at least called each time he promised and kept Mark updated of what was happening, that would have at least helped the situation. It just shows that someone cares, unlike non existant calls and dealers that don't answer the phone. When you're in Mark's situation you just feel that you're being fobbed off and no-one cares about you.

So come on Fiat. You make cracking cars, but when someone buys one and makes a commitment to Fiat, show that commitment back. By doing so you'll have a lot more loyalty amongst the owners and more chance of them buying a Fiat again.

Chas

 

[mark1962]

think i am at the fobbing off stage with the dealer ....phoned during my lunch break told service manager was with a customer...would phone me back now they cant phone me in work due to my job so i tell them to ring my home number and speak to wife and update her to the present situation..
Phone call never came... neither has chris smith bothered to contact me since i spoke to him tuesday lunchtime....

 

[Prestissimo]

I feel really sorry for Chris Smith having to deal with all these irate customers associated with these bad dealers, though he will probably have to eventually tear up the Fiat dealer network and start again (well almost). Maybe the next approach should involve Trading Standards and maybe even the BBC Watchdog television programme (Fiat won't like that when they are trying to sell Grande Puntos).

I'm in the fortunate position of having the choice of six Fiat dealers within a 25 mile radius (the nearest dealer seems pretty decent as well) so I can avoid the crap ones when deciding to buy a car, but others may not be so fortunate in this respect.

 

[Creamola]

I feel sorry for Mark. He's the guy who has been without any form of wheels for almost 5 weeks - despite Chris's committment to the forum last week to sort the problem out. I don't see any evidence of that yet.

In any case, Chris is not sufficiently high up in the organisation to carry out the changes you suggest. That is down to Bob Calver - as Director of AfterSales.

 

[mark1962]

as i write this i am still waiting for a progress report from the dealer,been trying for two days and not had them call back....cannot get hold of chris smith either

 

[mark1962]

Thought i had better catch up since FF has been offline.....On thursday pm i eventually got hold of the dealer (3rd phone call) to be told that Fiat have instructed him to dismantle the engine (boo hoo not what either of us wanted) which means more time off road as he has to take it apart and report back.
Now surely this is false economy for fiat....they have to pay the dealer labour hours and hire car charges (i finally got one saturday morning once i had time to GO FETCH) more so than if they had just sent exchange motor and played with my dud back in fiat HQ Money to burn i'd say.
Now all this means is my car will be off road even longer....couldn't get hold of chris smith to whinge about this choice of action.

 

[Shunter]

When the garage eventually took my car in for the piston slap to be rectified I was told I would have the car back within 2 weeks, but it was nearly 6 weeks before I got it back.

I was told that they had to strip the engine, measure the bores, report the findings to Fiat and then wait for the pistons to be manufactured to suit the bore dimensions and to be sent from Italy and then re-assemble the engine.

When I did get it back, I only got a mile from the garage and had to take it back as water was gurgling in the heater circuit (not bled properly). I left the garage for the second time and broke down within a a mile. I phoned the garage and they sent a mechanic out who apologised as some electrical connections had not been reconnected securely.

The next day I took it back again as the cooling sysyem had still not been bled properly.

 

[pid119]

piston slap is where the bottom of the valve stems touch the tops of pistons possibly due to a recent cambelt fitted with the camshaft timing slightly out

 

[mark1962]

in this case its more likely two pistons either slightly undersize or bad boring on two cylinders (dealers quote piston grading bla bla)