Kitaro - 2004 Daihatsu Copen

[Didge3]

my wife absolutely loves the copen, I do think one day we’ll end up with one. I was looking at a few on Facebook market place just the other day

Rather than say 'check for rust' I would say 'expect rust', doubt there are many truly clean examples out there, better to buy one knowing you will need to do the work and know it is good for it afterward. If your wife isn't much of a racer I'd probably recommend the 1.3, its an engine that solid in the Yaris so parts are easy to get and cheap. Its not as characterful as the 660 but its faster and simpler. Its the sensible choice and one I would've gone for if I didn't want whoosy turbo noises and a 8k rev limiter

 

[blu73]

Rather than say 'check for rust' I would say 'expect rust', doubt there are many truly clean examples out there, better to buy one knowing you will need to do the work and know it is good for it afterward. If your wife isn't much of a racer I'd probably recommend the 1.3, its an engine that solid in the Yaris so parts are easy to get and cheap. Its not as characterful as the 660 but its faster and simpler. Its the sensible choice and one I would've gone for if I didn't want whoosy turbo noises and a 8k rev limiter

I bet you could import a clean one still, the rust prevention in itself would be no small task though.

 

[icheatatscrabble]

Love these cars. Was trying to persuade the mother in law to buy one a few months ago and she was pretty keen. Never knew rust was so prevailant on them.
My only experience of a Jap sports car was a Honda S2000 that I owned for a couple of years - no rust on that at all, but it was only about six years old when I sold it.

The couple of cars I picked out for the mother in law, seemed to have good MOT history and no rust mentioned, but I suppose they could've been patched up. Hmm... I think I am going to have a look again on AutoTrader...

 

[Didge3]

Love these cars. Was trying to persuade the mother in law to buy one a few months ago and she was pretty keen. Never knew rust was so prevailant on them.
My only experience of a Jap sports car was a Honda S2000 that I owned for a couple of years - no rust on that at all, but it was only about six years old when I sold it.

The couple of cars I picked out for the mother in law, seemed to have good MOT history and no rust mentioned, but I suppose they could've been patched up. Hmm... I think I am going to have a look again on AutoTrader...

They're probably not all bad, mine was mostly rust free when I bought it coming on 3 years ago now. It had seen welding in the past though and now requires some attention to the sills. I would mention as a daily they're quite wearing, not much in the way of sound deadening although the seats are quite comfy if you physically fit in them, its a cramped space with the roof up!

I bet you could import a clean one still, the rust prevention in itself would be no small task though.

I expect so, but then you'd be missing out on the extra 4hp the EU models get over JDM cars

 

[blu73]

Thing to remember with the Copen is it was dreamt up as a kei car, which is another way of saying it was never really intended for export. As such its probably spec'd like a japanese car with very little to no undercarriage protection.

Having now bought 2 japanese imports, fresh imports but 15+ years old, they are both like new underneath but even few days driving in uk winter everything starts to go really quick. Both of mine all things like the control arms, rear axle, road springs etc etc, all just clean and black with zero rust - lasts like seconds on a salted road.

Find a clean one, get it really clean underneath, underseal it, cavity wax it etc etc, it'll probably last a good long time but they are old enough now that there will be rust inside things like sills even if there isnt where you can see it. The cleanest 20 year old cars now 100% have rust between seams and lurking out of sight lol.

 

[blu73]

I expect so, but then you'd be missing out on the extra 4hp the EU models get over JDM cars

no replacement for displacement lol! nah i'd totally have the 660cc turbo and turn up the boost and have more than 4 extra horsies if i had one i'm sure.

 

[Didge3]

no replacement for displacement lol! nah i'd totally have the 660cc turbo and turn up the boost and have more than 4 extra horsies if i had one i'm sure.

The factory turbo has very little extra to give, the number 1 mod if you want any appreciable power upgrade is a bigger turbo. I have done my research, I wanted to simply remap it for a bump of ponies but its not that simple, in the UK at least

 

[Didge3]

Finally got around to watching aforementioned MCM video. Its interesting the apparent differences between AUS and EU & JDM models, in Japan they rev to 8500 but EU/AUS cars stop at 8000. As far as I can tell the engines are the same mechanically and in my experience there is no power to be gained from going beyond 7k, but I like the absurd noises at 8k so when I'm pressing on I quite often change as close to 8k as possible
The AUS car also appears to have a rather plain looking Daihatsu branded wheel and not the MOMO branded wheel on UK cars.

The cars in the footage on the Sepang circuit had much wider tyres that don't fit under the arches, the chassis and power available (despite how low a number that is) easily overcome the skinny tyres you can fit on them without poking out the arches (AFAIK not legal in the UK?) so tyres have always been my limiting factor, which I have grumbled about in this thread before. Even at road speeds I can break traction in a fast bend and lift off oversteer is easily done. I guess part of that is what makes the car so fun, on a NSL road I can be pushing the car as hard as I dare and not break the speed limit, nor do I have to worry about a tractor coming the other way because I can always slip through the gap! I plan to fit some Nankang NS-2R's and go back to the factory wheels at some point.

This car is now the longest I've owned one car, my previous being my dear old '92 Panda which I adored and had for about 2 years 6 months. I tire of cars quite quickly, hence 11 cars in 12 years... so its a bit of a testament to how good the Copen is, despite the rust and it being an absolute pig to work on
Of course I reflect much of Marty's opinions on the car, it is the ultimate slow car fast IMO but of course more people are going to trust a youtube channel with multi million subscribers than some dude on the internet whose car history is somewhat questionable.

If any of you read all of those ramblings perhaps you ought to get one too

 

[blu73]

Finally got around to watching aforementioned MCM video. Its interesting the apparent differences between AUS and EU & JDM models, in Japan they rev to 8500 but EU/AUS cars stop at 8000. As far as I can tell the engines are the same mechanically and in my experience there is no power to be gained from going beyond 7k, but I like the absurd noises at 8k so when I'm pressing on I quite often change as close to 8k as possible

i was under the impression a JDM copen was a 660T kei whereas here and elsewhere it was a 1.3NA.... no?

 

[Didge3]

i was under the impression a JDM copen was a 660T kei whereas here and elsewhere it was a 1.3NA.... no?

All early cars were 660T, including mine. Around 2006/7 EU cars switched to the 1.3 from a Yaris, I believe AUS cars stuck with the 660T throughout production.

 

[Didge3]

Just a very minor update really, been slowing working through the rust on the underside, sanding it back, treating it with fertan rust converter (must say I'm very impressed with this stuff), spraying over it with "steel it" and then coating again with some black spray paint, once its done I will underseal the whole lot.
I've now done all the bits that are surface rust and can be converted this way, now I'm down to just the crunchy bits so its booked in on Monday to a bodyshop, when I had the wheel arch liners out it fortunately is solid and nothing alarming except on the very leading edge of the offside sill which is looking quite sorry for itself (and completely hidden behind the arch liner). I'm not sure how much of it will need to be cut out but heres hoping its not too bad

 

[blu73]

i hope its not too bad when they start chopping dude, scary thing to do unhiding the hidden.

 

[Didge3]

i hope its not too bad when they start chopping dude, scary thing to do unhiding the hidden.

Has to be done though, now or never I suppose

 

[blu73]

if your gonna do it then sooner the better yes lol

 

[Didge3]

if your gonna do it then sooner the better yes lol

If its super bad news it's either a Barchetta or a Cinq sporting I suppose

 

[Didge3]

Welding was all completed fine, much of the passenger side sill was cut out, apparently it was not pretty. I skimped a little and only had them primer it and apply stone chip so I need to paint it still, thought this wouldn't be too tricky, it doesn't need to be perfect the paintwork is broadly terrible anyway. Turns out getting the actual colour (Daihatsu S28) isn't all that simple, lots of places say they have it but when you order it turns out they don't so I need to think of other options. I've been out for a few sunny drives though, still love driving it although the alternator issue is decidedly worse, at idle I'm barely seeing above 12v now