Technical Kingpin renewal

[Crxsprocket]

Hello fellow 500'ers

I have a set of genuine Fiat workshop tools for renovating the steering hub kingpin sets on 500/126's :-

74056 Remover and installer, knuckle pillar and leaf spring bonded rubber bushings
74106 Remover and installer, knuckle pillar bushings
90316 Reamer, knuckle pillar bushings

With an engineering background I have always undertaken this work on our own and local friends 500/126's, if anyone fancies a less expensive enthusiast solution than exchange units?
Regards.
Nev...

 

[Panda Van]

Thats good to know - mine will need doing before his next mot, the last mot in april showed a fair ammont of play

 

[Crxsprocket]

Easy peasy!!...and local too...Save all that P&P nonsense...

 

[oopsadaisy]

As this is an issue that will affect us all sooner or later, and a very useful post to boot, I have made it a sticky so that it doesn't drop off the bottom!

 

[Kiwi Denzil]

Hi,

I'm new to Bambinas. I have a '69 NZ made bambina and have quite a lot of vertical play in the near-side king-pin unit. My manual is not to clear about this. Are there replaceable shims/bushes in the unit or does the whole shebang need to be replaced?

sorry to be asking such a dumb question.

 

[RogerNZ]

Hi Denzil, you buy a kit that has new pins, thrust washers and bushes. The kit costs very little, but you may end up paying a lot more to have the pins professionally replaced. You'll need a good engineering workshop to do the job, your local garage likely won't have the tools. There is little point in only doing one side, so you may as well get both done at the same time.
Cheers Roger

 

[Kiwi Denzil]

Cheers Roger,

I'll try the bloke in Napier see if he stocks them.

 

[Luxe]

Just bought the new upgraded kingpin set assured to last forever from a parts store here. The new kingpins cost me 80 euro for the pair. There was a less expensive option, but failable like the originals. Also bought a front leaf spring for 65 euro, a refurbished steering box for 85 euro, and an idler arm assembly for 25 euro.

 

[Luxe]

So I just received what I purchased a few weeks ago. Turns out they were two rebuilt steering knuckles with upgraded kingpins, guaranteed for the life of the vehicle. It is always difficult translating car parts. Turns out fuselli does not mean kingpins, but steering knuckle. Turned out better than I expected. I will post some photos in the future when I replace the steering box, leaf spring, and steering knuckles.

 

[mikkeles]

With an engineering background...

I am a mechanical engineer myself Would it be possible to post some pictures and a rough sketch with the most important dimensions? I have always managed to do this job with the aid of whatever being present on the workbench and in the scrap bin. But manufacturing a 'semioriginal' tool might make this forever returning job a bit easier...

Best regards

Mikkel Sorensen
Fiat 500D '62
Fiat 500D '64 (my first car, celebrating 25 years anniversary but still not running... )
Fiat 500 Combi '66
Fiat 500 F '71

 

[mikkeles]

By the way then be aware that some of the aftermarket renewal sets are really poor quality. E.g. some of them missing the bores in the kingpins that (theoretically) should distribute the grease to both bushings.
Also some of them contains a teflon coated steel bushing instead of the original brass ones. I have never tried using some of these, but I cannot imagine that it is going to work. Any experience?

Mikkel

 

[Zebravanman]

Hello fellow 500'ers

I have a set of genuine Fiat workshop tools for renovating the steering hub kingpin sets on 500/126's :-

74056 Remover and installer, knuckle pillar and leaf spring bonded rubber bushings
74106 Remover and installer, knuckle pillar bushings
90316 Reamer, knuckle pillar bushings

With an engineering background I have always undertaken this work on our own and local friends 500/126's, if anyone fancies a less expensive enthusiast solution than exchange units?
Regards.
Nev...

Nev,
I have just nought my first 500 (1971) the bloke put on 12 months MoT for me, but when I checked the play in the front wheels there was loads of play in the front wheels and the king pins have a bit of play.
Can you do the do the job please and if so how much.
Cheers
Andy

 

[fiat500]

Andy, that first post was 5 years ago . I would buy an exchange set from one of the 500 suppliers. I believe you can get them with an extra grease nipple to be much more efficient at lubrication.

 

[Zebravanman]

Andy, that first post was 5 years ago . I would buy an exchange set from one of the 500 suppliers. I believe you can get them with an extra grease nipple to be much more efficient at lubrication.

ok Ta

 

[fiat500]

Your old ones are usually needed as exchange. I did do a set myself once and it's a +₩@+ of a job. Next time entrusted it to a garage and they seemed worse than before, best was when I got an exchange set from some one whose main line of work was taxi kingpins, so exchange every time for me.
I cheated with this car as I believe that although counter intuitive, pins wear more quickly than bushes so I changed just them. Even that operation is fraught with challenges though.

 

[Franko500]

I have just pulled my Front suspension apart.
Kingpins need replacing. Does anyone know how you take these apart? cant find anything in any of the manuals I have. I can see a roll pin going through the stub axle part, and there is also what I can imagine to be a dust cover on the bottom of the tube with 2 holes in it, is it threaded?
Does anyone have a reamer for doing the king pins?
My father was a tool maker and he used to replace kin pin bushes so shouldn't be a problem. just need to know how and where to get a reamer from?

 

[fiat500]

Sean, the roll-pin should knock out. Ignore the peened disc in the bottom. Remove the top Silentboc. In theory it knocks out. Maybe use a press or the long bolt and washers/sockets method. Or do as me, burn out the rubber and hacksaw through the steel shell to release the pressure. You can then whack the pin downwards and it should take the disc with it. It might need more ingenuity and I have read horror sories of huge amounts of pressure needed. Take care and protect your hands. I once missed and made a hell of a mess of my left hand.
I actually got away with just new pins,. They will show the wear. Make sure you get a set as originals. The cheapos I got didn't have the central drilling to distribute grease and I expect them to fail very quickly.
Reaming is a black art made straightforward if you have the proper set with pilot etc.
The short adjustable reamers defeat the object as you can't do the bushes inline.
In future I will be buying an exchange set and I would recommend you do too unless you can get hold of the right kit or a real specialist to do it for you.

 

[the hobbler]

If my memory serves me correctly, the procedure was asfollows:-
(1)---press the top bush out of the king-pin carrier
(2)---Drill a hole in the bottom ‘cover’—this allows the ‘cover’to distort as it comes out and therefore not damage its locating groove
(3)---knock out the roll-pin
(4)---drift out the old king-pin (the bottom ‘cover’ willcome out with it)
(5)---press out the old bushes
(6)---press in the new bushes
(7)---using a loooong ADJUSTABLE reamer, ream out the topand bottom bushes IN LINE—be careful, there is little lee-way between tight andloose.
(8)---fit new king-pin—ensure that it has a greasegroove. When fitting the new king-pin, there should be a spacer-washer aboveand below the stub-axle. They used to have a rubber seal round the outside ofthe washers to hold the grease in.
(9)---fit new roll-pin, to locate the king-pin
(10)--fit new top bush
(11)--fit new bottom ‘cover’ by fitting in the locationslot and flattening it (it is slightly domed as it is in effect a minicore-plug)
If you have a 500 stub axle assembly, it is worthwhiletrying to fit a 2nd grease nipple, like the 126 has, as this ensuresthat the king-pin gets grease at both top AND bottom. The 500 king-pins oftensuffered from a lack of lubrication at both ends.
I hope this isclear and is of help

 

[Franko500]

My Kingpin kit is now here. But I have a query.
There are 2 washers with grooves in both sides, presumably 1 on top and one on bottom. The grooves allow the grease out of the shaft and lubricate the joint.
Now there is also another plain washer which I believe also needs to be inserted in either the top or bottom to take up the slack. Then the rubber seal goes round one of the large washers.
My old ones were knackered & one had a washer missing so I cant tell how they are supposed to be. Plus I cannot find any diagrams anywhere for this set up.
Could anyone tell me the order of the washers & is the seal at the top or bottom?
I shall add some photos of the process if it is successful.

 

[fiat500]

Depending on the kit, you might not need all the washers, you might need to use some of the old ones and might need to grind some of them a bit thinner. The plastic one goes round the perimeter of the grooved ones as an attempt at a seal. They are to take the load or thrust and are placed above the stub axle. This leaves a gap at the bottom between the stub axle and the housing for the bushes. this is where the other washer/s are squeezed in. you need to eliminate play there whilst keeping a smooth movement so experiment is needed to get the right sized ones which can mean shaving a touch off a washer.