General K&n air filters, and CV clunk

[bert9k]

Has anyone put one of these in and other that reusability is it worth the dosh, (carbed 999 fire),
Also have noticed the clunk on taking up drive when full lock/reversing and on similar manoevers seems slightly louder than before, i assume it's one of the CV's (n/s)?

- I would have put in the (newish) shaft that came with my replacement box that i shoved in but the splines were not fitting my hub! -so i;ve got nearly 120k on the shafts i'm using, and am wondering if they fail spectacularly or the clunks just get more frequent?

b/

 

[pandafan]

Has anyone put one of these in and other that reusability is it worth the dosh, (carbed 999 fire),
Also have noticed the clunk on taking up drive when full lock/reversing and on similar manoevers seems slightly louder than before, i assume it's one of the CV's (n/s)?

- I would have put in the (newish) shaft that came with my replacement box that i shoved in but the splines were not fitting my hub! -so i;ve got nearly 120k on the shafts i'm using, and am wondering if they fail spectacularly or the clunks just get more frequent?

b/

I always fit the K&N filter, it saves in the long run, particularly if you drive in dirty/dusty areas where the paper filters clog up. They are a doddle to clean and maintain ... and make a nice noice as they suck the air in

Your description of the 'clunk' sounds like a c.v. I have not experienced one going spectacularly; I usually change them when the noise gets on my nerves.

 

[Chas Uno]

Has anyone put one of these in and other that reusability is it worth the dosh, (carbed 999 fire),

In a word, no.

It looks nice, it sounds nice. If you keep the car for ten years it will pay for itself by you not having to buy standard paper air filters. In comparison, a standard airfiler takes about 20 seconds to change. The K&N will require at least half an hour to remove, clean, allow to dry, re-oil and then re-fit.

Disadvantages:

1. It doesn't make more power.

2. It doesn't give better MPG.

3. You WILL get carburettor icing in the winter unless you fit a warm air feed to it.

Advantages:

1. It looks nice

2. It sounds nice

3. It impresses youngsters when you have your bonnet open.

That's about it...

Here's one fitted to my 999cc Uno. The same filter will fit a 999cc Panda.

Also have noticed the clunk on taking up drive when full lock/reversing and on similar manoevers seems slightly louder than before, i assume it's one of the CV's (n/s)?

- I would have put in the (newish) shaft that came with my replacement box that i shoved in but the splines were not fitting my hub! -so i;ve got nearly 120k on the shafts i'm using, and am wondering if they fail spectacularly or the clunks just get more frequent?

b/

Check the gearbox and engine mounts. These can wear and cause similar symptoms. Also check the exhaust system as weak/ broken rubbers can also cause clunks when taking up drive.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

3. It impresses youngsters when you have your bonnet open.

only those who know nothing about car's

I don't know if one would fit a Panda, as the airbox is behind the carb, and looking at how far back the filter goes, it might not fit.

Are these the filters you also have to tell the insurance company about

Jon.

 

[Bougainvillea Rosso]

I´d assumed he was talking about the straight-swap panel rather than the bolt on one. Obviously, they are no hassle at all. Whether they make much difference or not I´m sure is up for debate, but I like the sound they make!!!

As far as I know, the simple panels do not need to be declared to insurers but any other type do.

 

[panda-sport]

I´d assumed he was talking about the straight-swap panel rather than the bolt on one. Obviously, they are no hassle at all. Whether they make much difference or not I´m sure is up for debate, but I like the sound they make!!!

As far as I know, the simple panels do not need to be declared to insurers but any other type do.

If you replace the standard filter at each 6000 mile service then there is no benifit with the panel k&n unless you are offroading in very dusty conditions, which has always been k&n's forte. If you are going on a lonnnng offroad trek then the fact it is cleanable is a plus when spares may be scarce (also if moving the car to somewhere without a fiat dealer, eg Mongolia ). It should also be noted that once fitted most people (not pandafan ) never clean thier washable filters and leave them in for the life of the car

Sadly the insurers do have to be informed.

The type of k&n 1986Uno45S had fitted to his uno (which will fit a Panda) will be of no benifit as well as potentialy lossing power (due to its position drawing in hot air etc) in this case. Nothing wrong with the filter, just the enviorment.

And yes, twinky does run a k&n and yes, its not in the best place for power, does sound good tho

 

[pandafan]

Gosh ... this has become a complicated thread !

I also assumed that we were talking about a straight swap for the original filter. It would be rediculous to fit a K&N complete filter system in the engine bay of a Panda ... it would reduce performance.

They pay for themselves in very dirty conditions; as long as they breath in clean COLD air, i.e. from the roof.

If you can't fit an intake on the roof, you can make a weather-shielded intake inside the bonnet scoop.

But you really do have to remember to clean the damn thing

 

[Chas Uno]

They pay for themselves in very dirty conditions; as long as they breath in clean COLD air, i.e. from the roof.

If the air is too cold and you run an old style K&N filter with a carburettor (not the replacement 'panel' filter that fits in the standard airbox) you will get carb icing when it gets cold outside. You don't want that as you'll lose power, consume excessive fuel and then get stranded until the carburettor warms up and rids itself of ice crystals.

That's why the standard airbox has a warm air intake (from the intake manifold), a cold air intake designed to take in air from the coolest part of the engine bay and a thermostatic flap to regulate the two. It is actually very efficient as long as all the necessary parts are there and is designed to ensure that the filtered air entering the induction system is at the optimum temperature. However, after a few years parts get damaged (cold air pipe to the airbox) or lost (small metal pipe connecting exhaust manifold to the airbox) and it no longer functions as well as it should.

But granted, a K&N does sound good on full throttle :devil:

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

If the air is too cold and you run an old style K&N filter with a carburettor (not the replacement 'panel' filter that fits in the standard airbox) you will get carb icing when it gets cold outside. You don't want that as you'll lose power, consume excessive fuel and then get stranded until the carburettor warms up and rids itself of ice crystals.

That's why the standard airbox has a warm air intake (from the intake manifold), a cold air intake designed to take in air from the coolest part of the engine bay and a thermostatic flap to regulate the two. It is actually very efficient as long as all the necessary parts are there and is designed to ensure that the filtered air entering the induction system is at the optimum temperature. However, after a few years parts get damaged (cold air pipe to the airbox) or lost (small metal pipe connecting exhaust manifold to the airbox) and it no longer functions as well as it should.

:yeathat:

So what noise does it make on full throttle. Is it like 'ssssuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkssssssssuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkk' and then on even more throttle 'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK' :devil:

 

[Lesnewell]

Apart from the bling and sound of a K&N there is no good reason to fit one. They do flow better but how do you make an air filter flow better? Simple, have bigger holes!. K&N filters do not filter as well as a paper filter. Desert racers and cars that operate in similar high dust environments use paper or oil bath filters because K&N and similar filters let too much dust through.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Apart from the bling and sound of a K&N there is no good reason to fit one. They do flow better but how do you make an air filter flow better? Simple, have bigger holes!. K&N filters do not filter as well as a paper filter. Desert racers and cars that operate in similar high dust environments use paper or oil bath filters because K&N and similar filters let too much dust through.

So what's the point of a K&N if it dosen't filter, does it boil back to boy racers wanting a different sound

 

[Lesnewell]

So what's the point of a K&N if it dosen't filter, does it boil back to boy racers wanting a different sound

The power of advertising. K&Ns look good and the open filters sound good (if you like lots of intake noise) but that is about all they do. With most cars, increasing the filter flow will have negligible impact on performance anyway. Clean filters offer very little restriction to air flow.

It is the same with 'performance' exhausts. I was reading an article on tuning Peugeot GTIs a while back and the author tested a number of aftermarket exhausts on a rolling road. The clear winner was the standard Peugeot exhaust.

 

[firstcar-Y10]

The power of advertising. K&Ns look good and the open filters sound good (if you like lots of intake noise) but that is about all they do. With most cars, increasing the filter flow will have negligible impact on performance anyway. Clean filters offer very little restriction to air flow.

It is the same with 'performance' exhausts. I was reading an article on tuning Peugeot GTIs a while back and the author tested a number of aftermarket exhausts on a rolling road. The clear winner was the standard Peugeot exhaust.

Aftermarket 'sporty' exhaust systems do have the 'fit and forget' thing, being usually stainless steel. 'fit and forget' doesn't do any favours on an air filter though once you get to the 'forget' part. On the plus side K&N give you a lovely sticker to show you've got one. I've got both panel filter and stainless back box on and while I'm still not quite ready for Santa Pod just yet, the surprise factor with the noise is priceless on a Panda

 

[Chas Uno]

So what's the point of a K&N if it dosen't filter, does it boil back to boy racers wanting a different sound

Bingo!

And the "look at me" factor, and the lovely noise it makes. It's just the same as why people fit drainpipe exhausts that make a racket but do sod all for performance.

One thing that is worth bearing in mind is that the aftermarket performance parts suppliers are generally trading on their past reputations. Years ago there was a massive scope to improve a factory standard engine/ intake/ exhaust/ carburettor etc. Manufacturing tolerances were very wide so just by 'blue printing' an engine and/ or its parts they could be made more efficient and thus more powerful.

However, manufacturing technology has moved on tremendously and the tolorences of a modern engine and its components are much tighter. This leads to less scope for aftermarket companies to 'improve' on a design. In fact it's more likely that some aftermarket parts will be LESS efficient and it's not unknown for some performance parts to cause a power drop rather than a power gain. But of course, all the boy racers want to believe the claims and also that there's all this secret horsepower locked away in their engines. The car manufacturers have a conspiracy to stop them having fun and the Superpowerflowbigfart exhaust really will free off all those trapped ponies. Of course...

Aftermarket 'sporty' exhaust systems do have the 'fit and forget' thing, being usually stainless steel.

The stainless steel aftermarket exhausts are the exception rather than the rule. Most aftermarket exhausts are made from mild steel and then given a coat of silver/ black paint and a fancy chrome tail pipe. Stainless is more expensive than mild steel so it's only the upper end aftermarket exhausts that are available in stainless.

Also bear in mind that though stainless steel is more resistant to rust (it's not 100% rust proof), it is more brittle than mild steel. As such they are more prone to stress fractures and it's not uncommon to hear of stainless systems needing cracks welded up every so often.

 

[pandafan]

GOOD GRIEF !

K&N filters are fantastic ... as long as you use them properly. It really isn't rocket science.

When I said that you take cold air from the roof, I was talking about the standard like-for-like replacement filter. All you have to do is run the cold intake hose upwards to the roof; you leave the warm intake where it is, sitting atop the manifold. Do you think I'm a stupid boy-racer ?
(if so, thank you for the compliment)

As for the bigger holes letting lots of rubbish through ... you do have to maintain the things ! The oil that you spray onto the filter attracts the dust particles, etc., and allows them to stick and build-up ... then you wash it and spray with oil again How hard is that ?

I have been running these cars for ever and am prepared to swear on a stack of ( please insert the name of the weighty tome that best reflects your secular {or non-secular} beliefs ) that a K&N filter, teamed with a clear glass re-usable fuel filter and a remote air intake, really does help you breath more easily.

NURSE !:doh:

 

[Chas Uno]

NURSE !:doh:

You called?

 

[pandafan]

Oh!...there you are please don't do that to me ............

I am a very delicate 17 stone'er ye know

 

[Chas Uno]

Oh!...there you are please don't do that to me ............

I am a very delicate 17 stone'er ye know

Don't worry, this will hurt me more than it hurts you.

*puts on rubber gloves and reaches for syringe with 3" needle*

Also, I'm only a 2nd year student nurse but I'm sure I know what I'm doing. I think we covered this in a lecture earlier this year. It really won't hurt.

*crosses fingers*

:devil:

 

[Lesnewell]

As for the bigger holes letting lots of rubbish through ... you do have to maintain the things ! The oil that you spray onto the filter attracts the dust particles, etc., and allows them to stick and build-up ... then you wash it and spray with oil again How hard is that ?

Oiling filters is not hard. but foam filters need to be quite thick so there is a large surface area to catch the dust particles. I have had a number of bikes with foam filters. When you compare an OEM bike filter with a K&N the difference is very noticeable. K&N filters use a fairly thin pleated element. In fact, if you take one apart and hold it up to the light you can see through the element. There is no way it has enough surface area to do a proper job of filtration. An OEM filter is usually around 10 - 15mm thick foam, often two different grades sandwiched together.

Taking cool air does improve performance. Performance wise, the cooler the better as long as you don't start icing the carb. I dunno how much difference there is taking it near the roof line rather than from just behind the bumper in a standard setup though. Both should receive air at ambient temperature.

On my 4x4 I relocated the air intake to just above the right hand strut. This should be a very bad place as it picks up warm air all the time. However I can't say I noticed any difference in power.

 

[panda-sport]

Oiling filters is not hard. but foam filters need to be quite thick so there is a large surface area to catch the dust particles. I have had a number of bikes with foam filters. When you compare an OEM bike filter with a K&N the difference is very noticeable. K&N filters use a fairly thin pleated element. In fact, if you take one apart and hold it up to the light you can see through the element. There is no way it has enough surface area to do a proper job of filtration. An OEM filter is usually around 10 - 15mm thick foam, often two different grades sandwiched together.

Taking cool air does improve performance. Performance wise, the cooler the better as long as you don't start icing the carb. I dunno how much difference there is taking it near the roof line rather than from just behind the bumper in a standard setup though. Both should receive air at ambient temperature.

On my 4x4 I relocated the air intake to just above the right hand strut. This should be a very bad place as it picks up warm air all the time. However I can't say I noticed any difference in power.

The k&n's are not foam, they are an oiled cotton/paper type. I would never recomend any type of foam filter (OEM or otherwise) to anyone, they realy don't stop the dirt, they are rock catchers only which is why the breath so well and are used on race engines with a limited life.