General JTD Oil Leak - Where's it coming from?

[pieandapint]

Hi, I hope you can help me, today I took the plastic engine cover off to find a large amount of oil coating the right hand side of the engine, it seems to start around the underside of what I can only assume is some kind of pump (vacuum pump?) and continues all the way down the right hand side of the engine.

I've not taken the cover off before and I'm no expert but surely this is not normal?

Thanks in advance
Dave

 

[Argonought]

got a photo?

 

[pieandapint]

got a photo?

I'll go and get a few, I took some with my mobile then forgot I had no way of transfering them!

 

[pieandapint]

Ok, now I have some pictures:

This is the oil on the right of the engine:

There's also a little on the left of the engine but no where near as much as on the right:

I also discovered a few other suspicious things while looking, the first picture is of a linkage that relates to the gear change but the shroud has snapped leaving it exposed (stupidly I took the pic with it in neutral, it's much more obvious in reverse - the metal rod it exposed and the shroud stays on the left side), can the shroud be replaced easily?

And I think I am missing a hose clip on this air hose (black hose at bottom not white) - anybody know what size clip I need?:

Thanks for your help, I look forward to your reply.
Dave

 

[pieandapint]

Just bumping this in a hope that I get a reply, I'm a bit concerned about the severity of this problem.

Dave

 

[Omad]

Well the oil leak appears to be from the cam cover gasket, its a rubber gasket that is prone to split and crack over time, and it should be changed on one of the services at the main dealer when they check your tappets. but its a easy saturday afternooner,

As for the boot on the gear linkage as far as im aware you are unable to buy the boot seperatly and as such would require replacement cables, however as long as its greased and remains resonably clean you shouldnt have a problem.

And finally the turbo pipe i think it's a 55-70 mm jubilee clip, but a quick trip to a dealer's can verify this.

Hope this helps

 

[pieandapint]

Well the oil leak appears to be from the cam cover gasket, its a rubber gasket that is prone to split and crack over time, and it should be changed on one of the services at the main dealer when they check your tappets. but its a easy saturday afternooner,

As for the boot on the gear linkage as far as im aware you are unable to buy the boot seperatly and as such would require replacement cables, however as long as its greased and remains resonably clean you shouldnt have a problem.

And finally the turbo pipe i think it's a 55-70 mm jubilee clip, but a quick trip to a dealer's can verify this.

Hope this helps

Thank you for that, do you know what the cost is for a cam cover gasket replacement at the dealers? Also are you quite sure it's the cam cover as there seems to be quite a bit around the vacuum pump? could the gasket have gone on that also?

Thanks
Dave

 

[Argonought]

It looks like it might be a rocker cover gasket leak to me (quite common).

Best thing is get some GUNK and give the engine a good clean (you'll also need a hose that produces a nice jet of water). Don't be tempted to quirt the electrics though and just concentrate on removing all the old/new oil.

Once this is done then it should be real easy to see where the oil is coming from after a few miles.



You seem to have a few items that need a bit of lubrication. My favourite for these is a dab of Waxyoil which also keeps the rust at bay.

Once you've got it cleaned up then it should look a lot like mine (check in my gallery)


Omad is quite correct - you need to put a jubilee clip on that turbo intake tubing (personally I’d strip the ducting and give it a good clean - and also make sure nothing else has been played with or missing )

 

[pieandapint]

Once you've got it cleaned up then it should look a lot like mine (check in my gallery)


Omad is quite correct - you need to put a jubilee clip on that turbo intake tubing (personally I’d strip the ducting and give it a good clean - and also make sure nothing else has been played with or missing )

Gave the engine a good clean today (no fancy products, just plenty of rags) I've photographed it all closely so that I can compare before and after a drive out.

Funily while cleaning I found that the turbo hose infact already has a jubilee clip on it, it was just caked with oil and dirt! It appears slightly loose though, I can slide it left and right about 10mm but it doesn't come apart from it's fixing. Is this normal or is the hose quite high pressure and need tightening?

Thanks
Dave

 

[minimad99]

Dave,
have a read of my thread here
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo-technical/144654-have-i-got-leak.html
i had the same loose pipe, i stripped the whole lot out and cleaned as it thought there may be a split somewhere.
Replaced with new jubilees, not loose now but i'm not sure if it should be loose???

 

[pieandapint]

Dave,
have a read of my thread here
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo-technical/144654-have-i-got-leak.html
i had the same loose pipe, i stripped the whole lot out and cleaned as it thought there may be a split somewhere.
Replaced with new jubilees, not loose now but i'm not sure if it should be loose???

I also have oil on the undertray and the turbo hose, it was quite thick but crumbly like yours, I get a quite loud whoosh from the turbo under hard acceleration and a hiss when changing gears (like a dump valve on a petrol turbo), could this be down to the loose hose or could it be a problem with the intercooler?

I'm not sure what an intercooler is or it's purpose. Maybe somebody could enlighten me?

Regards
Dave

 

[Argonought]

Gave the engine a good clean today (no fancy products, just plenty of rags) I've photographed it all closely so that I can compare before and after a drive out.

Funily while cleaning I found that the turbo hose infact already has a jubilee clip on it, it was just caked with oil and dirt! It appears slightly loose though, I can slide it left and right about 10mm but it doesn't come apart from it's fixing. Is this normal or is the hose quite high pressure and need tightening?

I'd certainly tighten that jubilee clip. It's not under pressure but I'd imagine a fair bit of oil might escape (instead of draining into vapour trap box or being removed by turbo) and make quite a mess down there - as minimad has discovered . Also, you want it well sealed from flood water

Still think you should use GUNK though

 

[pieandapint]

Still think you should use GUNK though

I was quite pleased with my rag cleaning effort, I have silver bits on my engine where I didn't even know they existed! haha

Maybe when I service the car I may develop a bit more of an OCD behaviour towards engine dressing and weild a can of gunk and a toothbrush

Back to my cruddy engine, could all of this oil have come from the loose hose if it's been loose for long enough? None of it seemed perticularly fresh.

Thanks
Dave

 

[Argonought]

.....and weild a can of gunk and a toothbrush

Ahh .... there speaks a man of experience

Back to my cruddy engine, could all of this oil have come from the loose hose if it's been loose for long enough? None of it seemed perticularly fresh.

Can't really see it Dave (gravity and all that )

It's almost certainly coming from two sources but you should know the answer in a day or so (if not then get that Gunk & toothbrush)

 

[pieandapint]

I've had another look at that jubilee clip and it appears to be the original fiat one as it matches most of the others on the car. It seems to be the type that hold on via a clip on the band rather than one that is tightened by screwing a cylinder clockwise that gips and tightens the band.

I hope that makes sense! I'm going to replace it anyway even if Fiat intended it to be like that, I don't want crap being sucked into the turbo.

There seems to be almost no online shops where you can buy spares for cars, I was looking for service parts and it was either shop4parts or eBay, with eBay coming in cheapest, even with each item delivered seperately!

Thanks for all your advice, I'll be back for more when I find the source of the oil leak.

Dave

Edit: How are these jubilee clips measured? I assume it's by diameter? and can anybody confirm what size it is? 55-70mm is what I've got so far.

 

[Omad]

You defo should not have any play on that clip for the turbo pipe (well at least all the ones ive done have never left loose), As for it being a source for an oil leak!!!! you had better hope not or you have serious turb's problems. but i doubt that's the case, if and when you remove that hose you should find oil residue but nothing substantial.

I can find out a retail price for you on the gasket but you will have to wait till wednesday now but at a rough guess its half an hours labour plus the part so i would guesstimate at £65.00 Oh and it's not that likely that the vac pump is leaking, but i have been wrong before, and best practise says change both gaskets! its not a hard job set aside a few hours on a sat afternoon and just to make sure they seal get some silicone sealant ( NOT HLYERMAR )

If you like i can get all the part numbers etc of what you need i just need the last 8 digits of your chassis number. PM me with the details if you like and ill get back to nextday.

Oh and the oil on the undertray, you may wanna have a look at your sump and oil pump area..... or it could even be some of my fellow fiat collegues not cleaning up after an oil and filter change! its all to common im affraid

 

[pieandapint]

You defo should not have any play on that clip for the turbo pipe (well at least all the ones ive done have never left loose), As for it being a source for an oil leak!!!! you had better hope not or you have serious turb's problems. but i doubt that's the case, if and when you remove that hose you should find oil residue but nothing substantial.

I can find out a retail price for you on the gasket but you will have to wait till wednesday now but at a rough guess its half an hours labour plus the part so i would guesstimate at £65.00 Oh and it's not that likely that the vac pump is leaking, but i have been wrong before, and best practise says change both gaskets! its not a hard job set aside a few hours on a sat afternoon and just to make sure they seal get some silicone sealant ( NOT HLYERMAR )

If you like i can get all the part numbers etc of what you need i just need the last 8 digits of your chassis number. PM me with the details if you like and ill get back to nextday.

Oh and the oil on the undertray, you may wanna have a look at your sump and oil pump area..... or it could even be some of my fellow fiat collegues not cleaning up after an oil and filter change! its all to common im affraid

Hi, thanks for your reply, I've been looking at how I would go about replacing the cam cover gasket and decided that if that's the offending article I'm going to have a go at replacing it myself.

What is the procedure I'd need to follow? Obviously I remove the engine guard, and the 6 cam cover screws (what type of screws are these so I can get the correct tool). Do I also have to remove the hoses going to the cam cover?

The other questions I have regard the fitting of the gasket, where would I place the sealent? near the screw holes? on the corners?

Thanks for all your help
Dave

 

[Omad]

Well for the procedure you are correct and yes remove the hoses, remove the cam box ( give a good clean with some rag and carb or brake cleaner ) fit the new gasket inplace of the old one and also clean the cylinder head and then place a thin film of sealant all the way round the gasket track on the cylinder head. then re-attach all removed components oh and the cam box bolts should be tightened down to 10nm.

As for the socket requied to un-screw the cam box its a '' ribe '' socket and its a size 40 i believe, but most peeps just use '' torx '' sockets and again its the same size. possibly a 45, i honestly cant remember, it's been a while since i changed one, but the tools are easily available at a halfords store. and you may want to measure the breather pipe diameter just incase to are unable to re-use the original clip and have to buy a jubilee ( better to be safe than sorry ) and finally some gloves!!! dirty old diesel oil is pain in a**e to get off your skin after.

Enjoy!

 

[pieandapint]

Well for the procedure you are correct and yes remove the hoses, remove the cam box ( give a good clean with some rag and carb or brake cleaner ) fit the new gasket inplace of the old one and also clean the cylinder head and then place a thin film of sealant all the way round the gasket track on the cylinder head. then re-attach all removed components oh and the cam box bolts should be tightened down to 10nm.

As for the socket requied to un-screw the cam box its a '' ribe '' socket and its a size 40 i believe, but most peeps just use '' torx '' sockets and again its the same size. possibly a 45, i honestly cant remember, it's been a while since i changed one, but the tools are easily available at a halfords store. and you may want to measure the breather pipe diameter just incase to are unable to re-use the original clip and have to buy a jubilee ( better to be safe than sorry ) and finally some gloves!!! dirty old diesel oil is pain in a**e to get off your skin after.

Enjoy!

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure where the sealant should go but if you thing all around is best that's what I'll do!

I am going to stock up on a few tools as I am planning on servicing the Stilo myself from now on. Do you have any suggestions as to what would come in useful?

Torque Wrench (what size?)
Strap/Filter Wrench
...

Regards
Dave