Technical Is my diesel overfueling

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Technical Is my diesel overfueling

Well, I didn't get the promised phone call today which is a little disappointing as Fiat CS have previously been pretty good in this respect. :cry:

Still, I was informed that the guy who helped me previously (Jonathan Britcher I think) had been off work sick and even if he was back today he probably had a desk full of paperwork to plough through.

I'll wait until Wednesaday and if I have not heard anything by then I will get in contact again.

Hi Grim

You are very easy going - are you a Virgo like me?
 
I notice that some of you guys seem to know when the regen is in progress. How do you know? Should a light come on?

The only way I know the regen is operating is when the engine note changes to a low growl/roar at around 3000rpm.

What I find annoying is that I can be driving at an indicated 80mph some days and the growl is audible. I pull in to services and then when I re-start the growl has gone and the engine is much sweeter sounding at 80mph - a noticeable drop in engine noise.

Surely it's not regenerating after prolonged high speed driving!!! - is it?

When I stop during the growler periods the engine/exhaust is worrying hot and you can smell it when you get out of the car. You can also hear the exhaust system clicking and popping as it cools. My Vauxhall Zafira diesel used to do very similar and again stopping and re-starting would change the engine note.

My 500 averages 60mph even when i drive quite hard so i can't complain in this respect. I just hate the growl at high motorway speeds, although as I said - it's only there every so often.
 
I notice my regenration the same way, tickover is 1k rpm instead of the usual 800 and the engine note is much growlier.
It also only starts a regeneration when the engine is at normal temp so if you do alot of town driving it can spend weeks with it just starting to regenerate when im 3/4 way home. I guess this isnt great and but i havent had a warning light so far. Kills the MPG though :)

I will have to watch parking up on grass if the car is regenerating it would certanly set fire to things !
 
More worringly for me (apart from the financial costs and the inconvenience) is the fact that the oil level gets so high and the engine sounds even noisier due to the fact that the oil is diluted with diesel fuel so lubrication is compromised.

I estimate that there is over 1ltr of unburnt diesel in the sump at the moment judging by the dipstick which can't be good for the friction surfaces and will cause premature excessive wear.

The reason I have estimated that there is 1L is because the level is now at the same spot on the dipstick as when they overfilled the car with 4L of oil the first time the oil was changed and the proper capacity is 2.8L for oil and filter change.
 
More worringly for me (apart from the financial costs and the inconvenience) is the fact that the oil level gets so high and the engine sounds even noisier due to the fact that the oil is diluted with diesel fuel so lubrication is compromised.
I can't believe how calm and insouciant your being. I'd be pasted irrate by now.

Can I ask why you were wearing heals? :p

Because they make my calves look better stoopid! :confused:
 
I can't believe how calm and insouciant your being. I'd be pasted irrate by now.

Having worked in the motor trade for 25 years plus you get to see the picture from both sides. I'm hoping that by showing the courtesy that I would liked to have received from customers (honey and vinegar scenario) my grievance will be taken seriously and not just disregarded out of hand.

I have explained the situation fully and detailed all the relevant information so hopefully someone will at this stage admit that this isn't normal and dig around enough to actually find the solution.

DPF problems are not just a Fiat problem and I readily accept the fact that in a city environment oil changes will occur sooner than normal but after only 2200 miles since the last one and over 50% of this mileage being under ideal conditions I consider 3 oil/filter changes in under 9000 miles pretty steep.

The response I receive from Fiat CS will determine my next course of action.

p.s. I hope insouciant isn't derogatory. LOL.
 
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I'm hoping that by showing the courtesy that I would liked to have received from customers (honey and vinegar scenario) my grievance will be taken seriously and not just disregarded out of hand.

I can only agree with this logic.

In my experience in two similar scenario's where one customer is being a tosser and one is being nice the nicer person will always get a better level of service and people will go the extra mile for them and the person who is being a tosser will always get the bare minimum level of service that is required by the warranty.

If only all customers were like you grimwau!
 
Also, I need to point out that when the oil was changed at the first service the oil warning hadn't come on and afterwards the service schedule was reset back to the 18000 mile countdown.

Would this have cleared any data held by the ECU regarding the number of regeneration cycles that had previously been carried out or is that a separate operation.

I can't talk for other Dealer's, but whenever we have a DPF vehicle in for a service, we print-off the data showing the "distance to next oil change" and contact the customer to discuss whether they wish to have the oil changed now or wait the 3/6/9 months that we estimate it will be due. This way you don't pay for unnecessary oil changes. ;)

It might be possible to look into the Examiner archive and see what the data was showing before the oil was changed, though I've never tried it, or needed to.

The ECU logs a variety of data regarding the DPF regen durations, temperatures, frequency, etc though this is an average of all the regens that have occured. It also stores the mileage at the last regen, and some ECU's list the total number of regens and the number of regens since the last oil change. This data is only reset if the Dealer has to fit a new Particulate filter.


Surely it's not regenerating after prolonged high speed driving!!! - is it?

When I stop during the growler periods the engine/exhaust is worrying hot and you can smell it when you get out of the car. You can also hear the exhaust system clicking and popping as it cools. My Vauxhall Zafira diesel used to do very similar and again stopping and re-starting would change the engine note.

It regenerates whenever the various sensors and data show it is required. Fiat state that although it is possible to get the exhaust temps high enough to naturally clear the filter by driving alone, the conditions required are hard to achieve- so it's easier to just drive normally and let the system do it itself. :)

The exhaust does get extremely hot during a regeneration. Fiat advise that any forced regens are performed outside the workshop and the area behind the vehicle is kept clear.

Grimwau, I'm sorry to hear you're still having problems, even after Fiat Technical have got involved. If every parameter is within spec then maybe it has got to the stage where replacing the DPF or other components is necessary to finally locate a cause that isn't showing-up under normal conditions.

The high oil level is definately a concern as Fiat insist it should be 2mm below max to prevent oil being drawn through the breathers and clogging the DPF quicker. I'd look into getting it drained slightly, and while your Dealer is there they can see roughly when the oil is likely to need replacing again. ;)
 
The high oil level is definately a concern as Fiat insist it should be 2mm below max to prevent oil being drawn through the breathers and clogging the DPF quicker. I'd look into getting it drained slightly, and while your Dealer is there they can see roughly when the oil is likely to need replacing again. ;)

D4nny8oy, once again thanks for the info, much appreciated. When I mentioned the high oil level to the DET the first time he told me it wasn't a problem as there was a sensor that would trigger a warning if the oil level rose too high. To date I haven't seen any evidence to verify this.

Maybe this explains why my filter clogged light comes on so often.

The car is booked in on Saturday for the oil/filter change and I hope by that time Fiat CS will have spoken to the garage regarding this matter.
 
That 2mm of max was great information for diesel owners.
The fact that some Fiats DET's are not aware of this points to some (re)taining being needed.

Jake, I'm sure that they are all aware but it is down to whether they actually check. Fiat techs are no different to any others, technical ability aside, to some it is "only a job" whereas others will take satisfaction from knowing that they have done a good job.

As I posted before they put 4 litres of oil in mine on an oil change (and charged me for the privelege) when the capacity is 2.8ltrs for oil/filter change.

It is quite possible that due to the mis-information I was given I might have, unknowingly, been contributing to the problem. Perhaps that is why even after travelling 350 miles at 70-80mph thinking :idea:" this will be giving the DPF a birthday treat" my filter clogged light came on less than 40 miles later. (n)
 
That 2mm of max was great information for diesel owners.
The fact that some Fiats DET's are not aware of this points to some (re)taining being needed.

The 2mm is known throughout Fiat (well almost) however I dont think training is the issue here its being allowed time to read & digest the information already available that is the problem.
 
Had a phone call from Fiat CS this afternoon from the same person who had dealt with my original enquiry.

He was very concerned that the problem was still ongoing and is contacting my dealer to tell them that when the car goes in on Saturday for it's oil change they book it in to have thorough checkover. If they are still unable to diagnose the problem they are to open a case with Fiat HQ.

He also said that the oil and filter change will be FOC. (y)

Top marks again for Fiat CS. :worship:

Let's just hope that my dealer can diagnose and rectify the fault.
 
Took it in and had the oil and filter changed today as arranged and had a chat with the DET. He is aware of the fact that Fiat have requested that he open a case to try and resolve the problem and we went over the basic facts so that he could build up a picture of what exactly was happening.

After running through the details he is aware that I am doing everything in my power to minimise the problem and also confirmed that although other diesel 500s have been in for early oil changes none of them were at such low mileages as mine. He also said that Fiat had cut the labour time for an oil/filter change to ½ hour to help keep costs down.

Anyway, the main concern was the rising oil level on the dipstick and he asked me to show him how I determined this.

I wanted to check the oil level anyway as on a previous occasion the car had been overfilled so I was glad to see the level being spot on. I then pushed it back in to the yellow plastic and pointed out that at this point the level previously had shown just over maximum.

Today it read just over minimum as you would expect on a correctly filled car.

Anyway, he has agreed that borewash is the only way that the level could increase and that I should monitor the level each week and if it rises again then he will open the case with Fiat which, as it will entail stripping the engine down, will require their authorisation to do so.

Personally, I would have drained the oil and then measured the amount in the bucket to confirm how much extra was in the sump and then taken a sample to send to Fiat for analysis. If they had then determined that there was a large percentage of fuel in the oil then maybe they would have started the ball rolling immediately.

As it happens I will now have to wait a couple of months or so longer until this happens again and then I might be able to get something done at last.
 
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