Hi Grim
You could have a sample tested yourself and then possible charge Fiat for the cost if your case is proven. There is a company in Dartford called Saybolt Ltd who specialise in fuel and lubricant testing. - Just a thought.
Cheers
John
Technical Is my diesel overfueling
- Thread starter grimwau
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Technical Is my diesel overfueling
Hi Grim
You could have a sample tested yourself and then possible charge Fiat for the cost if your case is proven. There is a company in Dartford called Saybolt Ltd who specialise in fuel and lubricant testing. - Just a thought.
Cheers
John
OP
OP
John, thanks for the info, I shall bear it in mind if it ever goes so far as to need external action.
The main problem is with my dealer rather than Fiat, they have phoned the garage and told them to get the car booked in as a matter of urgency but instead they have just sent me away and told me to carry on checking the level and only call back when the problem re-occurs.
I don't want to do anything now until such time as I have informed Fiat CS of the current situation although I cannot imagine them being best pleased that they are being ignored.
Personally I think that the dealer hopes that Fiat will come up with a solution prior to seeing me again as they probably don't have the time and/or expertise to be able to diagnose the cause.
The frustrating part is that there are clued up techs on the forum that would be able to carry out the detailed inspection required but alas they are not in this area.
D4nny8oy
Established member
The diagnostic procedure isn't difficult, and is there for all to see on Fiat's online database, so I'm surprised if they haven't gone through it yet- it's fairly idiot-proof too
. It does involve the Tech being allowed the time to carry out the checks which often isn't the case, but if they had your car a few days it shouldn't have been a problem.I would have thought Fiat Technical would have insisted on seeing the results before arranging for the field engineer to visit, or at least would've performed the checks when they came down.
OP
OP
The diagnostic procedure isn't difficult, and is there for all to see on Fiat's online database, so I'm surprised if they haven't gone through it yet- it's fairly idiot-proof too
I would have thought Fiat Technical would have insisted on seeing the results before arranging for the field engineer to visit, or at least would've performed the checks when they came down.
D4nny, I understand what you are saying and AFAIK the initial check didn't show up anything, I am referring to a more detailed inspection that would involve a certain amount of stripping down of the engine.
Since the original check was carried out without any problem being diagnosed the car only covered 2200 miles (under very good driving conditions) but in that time the oil level increased by approx 1.2 ltrs before the "change oil" light illuminated.
Obviously regeneration cycles will cause a certain amount of borewash and a small amount of fuel will enter the sump but this seems excessive and indicates that there is a more serious problem.
I was told (not by my dealer) that there is a service bulletin 00.15.09 that consists of a check list that could lead to having your engine ECU reprogrammed (flashed) if applicable but not sure if this is the DPF parameter update I have already had done or something else.
I have had several occasions when the EOBD/Injection System Failure (amber/yellow) light on the dash has come on, for which the handbook states:
If the warning light remains on or comes
on whilst driving, this means that the injection
system is not working properly;
in particular, if the warning light comes on
constantly, this indicates a malfunction in
the supply/ignition system that could cause
excessive exhaust emissions, a possible
loss of performance, poor driveability and high consumption.
on whilst driving, this means that the injection
system is not working properly;
in particular, if the warning light comes on
constantly, this indicates a malfunction in
the supply/ignition system that could cause
excessive exhaust emissions, a possible
loss of performance, poor driveability and high consumption.
but no fault codes have been stored even though the manual says that the warning light will go out if the malfunction disappears, but the system still memorizes the problem.
I thought that this might be significant re: the overfuelling, but the DET said that this can happen if the DPF is regenerating.
If you agree that this light comes on for this reason I will have more confidence in my dealer but until then I remain sceptical about whether they will be able to diagnose my problem.
As always, thanks for your input which I always take on board.
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OP
OP
Just an update, really as much for my own benefit as I use this thread is as a reference for when I need to refresh my memory.
Saturday, I picked car up on about 12.15 from the dealers and the wife and I drove out into the countryside for a pub lunch, about a 15 mile round trip.
Sunday, met some friends and went for a pub lunch in the New Forest, about a twenty mile round trip.
Monday, the wife went to work, (well someone has to earn the money to keep the pubs in business LOL) about 10 mile round trip.
Tuesday, wife went to work again and on her way home the Filter Clogged Light came on. She drove the 5 miles home at 60ish mph although it is a 50mph restricted dual carriageway but the light stayed on.
When I got home I took the car for its usual Friday night 80mph drive, albeit 3 days early and the light went off after 12 miles or so. Saw lots of 500s on the road and I think one was Heidi going home from work at about 16.40.
Anyhow, back on topic, after the light went out carried on for a couple of miles at 50mph in 4th gear to keep the revs up and the exhaust gasses hot and the flow nice and steady.
When I came off the dual carriage way I stopped at the traffic lights at the end of the slip road and whilst waiting for them to change the RPM ibncreased to 1000RPM and the car started regenerating.
You can imagine my language as I now had to drive the car until the cycle was completed so that's another 20 mins of my life I won't get back.
Only good thing was the fact I was in my 500 and that Abba was on the memory stick. Ha! Ha!
Saturday, I picked car up on about 12.15 from the dealers and the wife and I drove out into the countryside for a pub lunch, about a 15 mile round trip.
Sunday, met some friends and went for a pub lunch in the New Forest, about a twenty mile round trip.
Monday, the wife went to work, (well someone has to earn the money to keep the pubs in business LOL) about 10 mile round trip.
Tuesday, wife went to work again and on her way home the Filter Clogged Light came on. She drove the 5 miles home at 60ish mph although it is a 50mph restricted dual carriageway but the light stayed on.
When I got home I took the car for its usual Friday night 80mph drive, albeit 3 days early and the light went off after 12 miles or so. Saw lots of 500s on the road and I think one was Heidi going home from work at about 16.40.
Anyhow, back on topic, after the light went out carried on for a couple of miles at 50mph in 4th gear to keep the revs up and the exhaust gasses hot and the flow nice and steady.
When I came off the dual carriage way I stopped at the traffic lights at the end of the slip road and whilst waiting for them to change the RPM ibncreased to 1000RPM and the car started regenerating.
You can imagine my language as I now had to drive the car until the cycle was completed so that's another 20 mins of my life I won't get back.
Only good thing was the fact I was in my 500 and that Abba was on the memory stick. Ha! Ha!
Massirati
New member
Hi all,
My wife's 500 diesel is showing the flashing red Oil warning and also the message to change the oil.
She just had the first service early at the 10000 mark which was 2 months ago and has ony covered 1100 miles since. All the miles were on fast 60/70mph roads for each leg of her commute which is 30 miles each way.
She drives frugally even though I tell her to push it once a week
Fiat are going to take a look at it tommorow.
I checked the oil level last night with the engine cold and it was slighly over the max mark so it will probably be way over when the engine is hot.
The Fiat dealer said that there is a software update to alleviate/fix this issue.
Will let you know what happens.
Cheers
My wife's 500 diesel is showing the flashing red Oil warning and also the message to change the oil.
She just had the first service early at the 10000 mark which was 2 months ago and has ony covered 1100 miles since. All the miles were on fast 60/70mph roads for each leg of her commute which is 30 miles each way.
She drives frugally even though I tell her to push it once a week
Fiat are going to take a look at it tommorow.
I checked the oil level last night with the engine cold and it was slighly over the max mark so it will probably be way over when the engine is hot.
The Fiat dealer said that there is a software update to alleviate/fix this issue.
Will let you know what happens.
Cheers
Christ after reading all this i hope i dont get this problem, mine is due a service so booking it in on the weekend ill ask if they have had any problems like this with their customers, Griffin Mill.
Mine comes on now and then and my oil level has not changes atall since i had the car 12 months back, never seen the oil light either.
Mine comes on now and then and my oil level has not changes atall since i had the car 12 months back, never seen the oil light either.
Hi all,
My wife's 500 diesel is showing the flashing red Oil warning and also the message to change the oil.
She just had the first service early at the 10000 mark which was 2 months ago and has ony covered 1100 miles since. All the miles were on fast 60/70mph roads for each leg of her commute which is 30 miles each way.
She drives frugally even though I tell her to push it once a week
Fiat are going to take a look at it tommorow.
I checked the oil level last night with the engine cold and it was slighly over the max mark so it will probably be way over when the engine is hot.
The Fiat dealer said that there is a software update to alleviate/fix this issue.
Will let you know what happens.
Cheers
Did they change the oil during the service? They may not have as the car lets you know when it needs changing. However good garages usually let you know how deteriated the car thinks the oil is and if its likely to need replacing soon its just easier to get it done in that service visit.
Massirati
New member
Well they (glyn Hopkin) said that they changed the oil but how are we supposed to know if they did or not? Btw I am not saying that they are lying but how can you tell old oil from new at the oil turns black right away after a service.
When the misses first told me of the warning message I assumed that they did not reset this counter at the last service!
As for Garages letting you know the state of the old oil -i've never been to any that have notified me of this. They probably would if they found metal in the oil or a sensor that shows this (assuming it has one!).
Cheers
OP
OP
Hi all,
My wife's 500 diesel is showing the flashing red Oil warning and also the message to change the oil.
She just had the first service early at the 10000 mark which was 2 months ago and has ony covered 1100 miles since. All the miles were on fast 60/70mph roads for each leg of her commute which is 30 miles each way.
She drives frugally even though I tell her to push it once a week
Fiat are going to take a look at it tommorow.
I checked the oil level last night with the engine cold and it was slighly over the max mark so it will probably be way over when the engine is hot.
The Fiat dealer said that there is a software update to alleviate/fix this issue.
Will let you know what happens.
Cheers
1100 miles is ridiculous, especially if you did 10000 previously miles without any problems. The only ray of hope I can offer you is that possibly when the dealer did the service and reset the service interval (does it show 18000 -1100 =16900 miles to next service in the menu section on the speedo?) they may not have zeroed the prior regeneration history so that it thinks it needs the oil changed (based on 10000 + 1100 = 11100 miles) which would be be perfectly acceptable.Please understand that I don't know if this is exactly how the system works but if D4nny8oy reads this (or any of the other techs) they will be able to explain if this could be the case.
By the way, the level on the dipstick will always be higher when the engine is cold as all the oil will then have drained down into the sump so don't worry on that score.
Also, the DPF will clear better at steady speeds so if the wife is travelling at 60-70 mph that is better for the DPF than harder driving as the when you accelerate the extra fuel cools the charge which is the opposite effect to what you want.
Please post back after you get any info from the dealer tomorrow.
OP
OP
There are some techs on here that actually check the oil quality based on what the examiner reports and then will phone the customer to ask them what they want to do based on the report.
As you know it is suggested in the service book that it is possible to travel to the full service distance (18000 miles) without theoretically needing an oil change (diesel engines only) but I would be more than happy if I only had to have mine changed on an annual service which is approximately every 7500 miles.
ps. I know they have changed the oil because, (apart from once when it was overfilled) ironically, my oil level is much lower after the service than before.
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OP
OP
It would appear that your car is performing exactly how it should be, ......... Do you want to swap, lol.
Massirati
New member
Cheers for the advice grimwau
My first theory is that they have not reset the DPF regen counter after the last service and I hope that it is as simple as that.
Good point about the oil level but I was asuming that this balances out as the Oil expands when the engine is hot. I need to check this again with the engine cold, then drive it and test again after 10 mins when the engine is hot. It will be interesting to see where the oil mark lands on the dipstick.
From what I can gather from the various posts on this site, it's not just high speed that will help the Dpf but constant high revs also?
Will definitely post the results as I have a 1.9 sedici that needs to be carefull watched also.
I hope this is not a big problem for Fiat as they need this great little car to be an outright success with no question marks attached to it.
Be a shame if all their hard work went to waste as they are building some cracking little cars.
Cheers
Massirati
New member
Adding to the above..
What's the news with your 500 problem grimwau?
Any joy yet?
Cheers
What's the news with your 500 problem grimwau?
Any joy yet?
Cheers
OP
OP
No more news at the moment but when I hear something I will post in this thread.
D4nny8oy
Established member
Sounds likely to me. Resetting the Service reminder does not reset the oil degradation counter- they're separate things in two ECU's. It's easily done when in a rush, and will be clear to the Tech when you take it back as the ECU records the number of services and the distance travelled at the last oil change.
The quality of the oil, and therefore the distance left until it needs replacement, is based on various data like the type and distances of journeys undertaken, but mainly based on the number of DPF regenerations (during which a small amount of fuel makes it's way into the oil and dilutes it). Like Grimwau has said, high revs aren't necessary- anything over 60km/h and 1800rpm is fine, and if it can't do it on a long run then it can perform the regen at idle if the vehicle remains stationary.
Massirati
New member
Like Grimwau has said, high revs aren't necessary- anything over 60km/h and 1800rpm is fine, and if it can't do it on a long run then it can perform the regen at idle if the vehicle remains stationary.
Thanks D4nny8oy,
Good info!
I will try and pick the Mechanic's brains tommorow to see if I can get some usefull info to share. (Assuming they are in the mood
)Cheers
Massirati
New member
Hi all,
Ok I took the misses 500 down to the dealer where they have done an ECU update which should hopefully fix the problem.
The visible result is that the "change oil" message and oil light have dissapeared. The update has apparently only just been released in the last couple of weeks or so due to Fiat being aware of the problem, which primarily revolves around the cars being set with incorrect parameters from the view of the ecu.
The Mechanic who was very helpfull even though he was rushed off his feet with dealing with this along with 2x ladies who had their cars in for exactly the same problem.
I managed to get the following info from him..
1. the cars affected by this problem are due to them leaving the factory with parameters for Dpf regen as recorded by the Ecu being set at too low a figure. Ecu update fixes this (?) As to how many cars affected - who knows?
2. The DPf regen is determined by a whole series of factors amongst which are..
number of times the engine fires, the duration of the journey and engine load along with data from various temp sensors and pressure sensors before and after the dpf filter. This is not a complete list I imagine!
3. From what the Mechanic said, there is No indication to the driver that DPF regen is taking place i.e raised revs, and that you will not be aware that it is taking place. The dpf light come on only if there is a big problem with the dpf.
4. Dpf regen will never start when the car is at idle and only when sufficient speed over time is recorded by the ecu amongst other factors.
Hopefully some of you fiat mechanics out there can coroborate this info?
As to whether this update fixes the problem only time will tell.
If not I will let you all know for sure!
Credit to Glyn hopkins for seeing the car so quickly! and keeping the wife from using my Sedici
Hope this info helps?
Ok I took the misses 500 down to the dealer where they have done an ECU update which should hopefully fix the problem.
The visible result is that the "change oil" message and oil light have dissapeared. The update has apparently only just been released in the last couple of weeks or so due to Fiat being aware of the problem, which primarily revolves around the cars being set with incorrect parameters from the view of the ecu.
The Mechanic who was very helpfull even though he was rushed off his feet with dealing with this along with 2x ladies who had their cars in for exactly the same problem.
I managed to get the following info from him..
1. the cars affected by this problem are due to them leaving the factory with parameters for Dpf regen as recorded by the Ecu being set at too low a figure. Ecu update fixes this (?) As to how many cars affected - who knows?
2. The DPf regen is determined by a whole series of factors amongst which are..
number of times the engine fires, the duration of the journey and engine load along with data from various temp sensors and pressure sensors before and after the dpf filter. This is not a complete list I imagine!
3. From what the Mechanic said, there is No indication to the driver that DPF regen is taking place i.e raised revs, and that you will not be aware that it is taking place. The dpf light come on only if there is a big problem with the dpf.
4. Dpf regen will never start when the car is at idle and only when sufficient speed over time is recorded by the ecu amongst other factors.
Hopefully some of you fiat mechanics out there can coroborate this info?
As to whether this update fixes the problem only time will tell.
If not I will let you all know for sure!
Credit to Glyn hopkins for seeing the car so quickly!
and keeping the wife from using my Sedici Hope this info helps?
Last edited:
OP
OP
Hi all,
Ok I took the misses 500 down to the dealer where they have done an ECU update which should hopefully fix the problem.
The visible result is that the "change oil" message and oil light have dissapeared. The update has apparently only just been released in the last couple of weeks or so due to Fiat being aware of the problem, which primarily revolves around the cars being set with incorrect parameters from the view of the ecu.
The Mechanic who was very helpfull even though he was rushed off his feet with dealing with this along with 2x ladies who had their cars in for exactly the same problem.
I managed to get the following info from him..
1. the cars affected by this problem are due to them leaving the factory with parameters for Dpf regen as recorded by the Ecu being set at too low a figure. Ecu update fixes this (?) As to how many cars affected - who knows?
2. The DPf regen is determined by a whole series of factors amongst which are..
number of times the engine fires, the duration of the journey and engine load along with data from various temp sensors and pressure sensors before and after the dpf filter. This is not a complete list I imagine!
3. From what the Mechanic said, there is No indication to the driver that DPF regen is taking place i.e raised revs, and that you will not be aware that it is taking place. The dpf light come on only if there is a big problem with the dpf.
I find that at tickover the idle speed increases from 800RPM to 1000RPM and if you are travelling and you have the intant MPG option showing on the speedo display the MPG figures drop dramatically.
4. Dpf regen will never start when the car is at idle and only when sufficient speed over time is recorded by the ecu amongst other factors.
I have had the regeneration start whilst idling in traffic and although it takes quite a long time it will complete the cycle eventually even if you are in a traffic jam. Unfortunately, it doesn't like it if you turn the engine off before it completes and if you do this a few times because you aren't aware of the fact then I believe the filter clogged light will come on to let you know that it needs to be cleared.
Hopefully some of you fiat mechanics out there can coroborate this info?
As to whether this update fixes the problem only time will tell.
If not I will let you all know for sure!
Credit to Glyn hopkins for seeing the car so quickly!
Hope this info helps?
Nice work massiratti, glad that yours was simple to fix and that Glyn Hopkins were on the ball. When I took mine in last week for this same problem the DET never mentioned a new update when I enquired if any were available.
I wonder if this was the item referred to in a previous post of mine regarding TSB 00.15.09?
