Technical Immobiliser Ducato 2004

[wanejh]

Intermittent fault - engine starts first time every morning. After a journey and then try to start - the immobiliser light goes on when trying to start. Wait 15 minutes up to 90 minutes and it starts.
I have been looking in here at similar problems - Communicator and a guy in Norway and a user who was going to Italy.
suggested solution is:
The solution was indeed to have the immobilizer circuit…removed from the Ecu.
I pulled the ECU, the immobilizer unit and took them and the key to a guy who repairs Ecus.

So does this mean the ECU is now bypassing the immobiliser?

How do I find a ECU expert to do this? In the UK. I will go anywhere!!!

 

[Communicator]

Hi, wanejh,

1. I have only experieced an immobiliser problem with the vehicle in service on one occasion with a warm engine. Vehicle started OK on immediate second attempt. I have also had similar failures with a cold engine when testing at home. It seriously reduces confidence in the vehicle.

2. The modification that you mention is to reprogramme the ECU so that it does not need the OK code repitition from the code receiver.

3. Carry out a web search for vehicle locksmiths, perhaps with specific mention of the Bosch ECU. Inspect search results for capability. I did find a French firm on Ebay who offered a drop in ECU with no code required.

4. To help others please post your solution on this thread.

 

[wanejh]

2004 intermittent immobiliser fault - imo came on after driving for an hour or so. Would not start. Leave for an hour and it works ok. This happened for over a year but got worse over last 3 months. Took it to Camco in Warrington. They fitted a used imo and cloned the old one. It works ( so far). £300.

 

[oldjagman]

Similar problem. Have just been to try and get my brothers 2003 Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD 520E motorhome started. Immobiliser had been giving intermittent problems this past few months but now will not start. Dash immobiliser light staying on. Engine turns over fine. Wanted to bypass immobiliser and was told if I remove the plastic connector from back of fuel injection pump it will reveal a black wire which then has to be connected to steering column switched power. I removed said plastic cover which revealed 2 broken pins which would have been connected to the 2 thin wires ( white/pink and blue/black ) connecting plug. No black wire. I fed direct power to each, in turn of the broken tabs left on the injector pump but still would not start. Anyone with any suggestions. Thanks

 

[Communicator]

I struggled at first to understand the import of oldjagman's post #4 above. The 2.8jtd is a common rail engine and as such the injection is controlled by the ECU via electromagnetically controlled injectors.

The single output HP pump has two electrical connectors, one for the 3rd piston deactivation, and the second for the fuel pressure regulator. The pump is part of the auxillary assembly, and almost impossible to inspect from above. However the wire colours quoted match with those for the pressure regulator, which ia a modulated electromagnetic device with both ends of the coil connecting to the ECU. See item N077 at bottom left of attached drawing E5050-2, and colour code translation chart.

Connecting 12V to one end of the regulator, with the other end open circuit will achieve nothing. If the regulator was fully energised it would not be able to control the fuel pressure. It would however ensure maximum possible cranking rpm rail pressure. I suspect that this pressure will be determined by the cranking speed and not by the ECU/regulator. It should not overcome the immobiliser.

It is my understanding that the immobiliser system on common rail engines works by inhibiting the injection outputs from the ECU. I suspect that the suggestion for the attempted modification is the result of a failure to understand the differences between the 2.8jtd and the earlier 2.8idTD which has mechanical injection. On the 2.8idTD it is possible to remove the immobiliser from the pump, and connect a key controlled supply to the fuel cut off solenoid which has earth (chassis) return.

 

[oldjagman]

I struggled at first to understand the import of oldjagman's post #4 above. The 2.8jtd is a common rail engine and as such the injection is controlled by the ECU via electromagnetically controlled injectors.

The single output HP pump has two electrical connectors, one for the 3rd piston deactivation, and the second for the fuel pressure regulator. The pump is part of the auxillary assembly, and almost impossible to inspect from above. However the wire colours quoted match with those for the pressure regulator, which ia a modulated electromagnetic device with both ends of the coil connecting to the ECU. See item N077 at bottom left of attached drawing E5050-2, and colour code translation chart.

Connecting 12V to one end of the regulator, with the other end open circuit will achieve nothing. If the regulator was fully energised it would not be able to control the fuel pressure. It would however ensure maximum possible cranking rpm rail pressure. I suspect that this pressure will be determined by the cranking speed and not by the ECU/regulator. It should not overcome the immobiliser.

It is my understanding that the immobiliser system on common rail engines works by inhibiting the injection outputs from the ECU. I suspect that the suggestion for the attempted modification is the result of a failure to understand the differences between the 2.8jtd and the earlier 2.8idTD which has mechanical injection. On the 2.8idTD it is possible to remove the immobiliser from the pump, and connect a key controlled supply to the fuel cut off solenoid which has earth (chassis) return.

Thank you for your response to my post. It would indeed appear from it that reference was inadvertently referring to the earlier 2.8idTD with mechanical injection. It now appears I shall have to solder the broken connections together which I have made in error. Can I ask is there a possibility of what modifications to my ECU are required to nullify the immobiliser ?

 

[Gary Strange]

Intermittent fault - engine starts first time every morning. After a journey and then try to start - the immobiliser light goes on when trying to start. Wait 15 minutes up to 90 minutes and it starts.
I have been looking in here at similar problems - Communicator and a guy in Norway and a user who was going to Italy.
suggested solution is:
The solution was indeed to have the immobilizer circuit…removed from the Ecu.
I pulled the ECU, the immobilizer unit and took them and the key to a guy who repairs Ecus.

So does this mean the ECU is now bypassing the immobiliser?

How do I find a ECU expert to do this? In the UK. I will go anywhere!!!

My 2004 Motorhome would not start as the yellow immobilser light stayed on. It can be started by a dedicated 5 digit code which should come with your van. It's done using the accelerator pedal.
RMS Diagnostics in Sandwich, Kent had my motorhome for three weeks and reprogrammed the 2 ecu's and keys. Now starts with keys. Not cheap, but much better than any Fiat Ducato garage. The man's name is Bob, and he will let you know the solution.
Good luck.
Gary

 

[Communicator]

My 2004 Motorhome would not start as the yellow immobilser light stayed on. It can be started by a dedicated 5 digit code which should come with your van. It's done using the accelerator pedal.
RMS Diagnostics in Sandwich, Kent had my motorhome for three weeks and reprogrammed the 2 ecu's and keys. Now starts with keys. Not cheap, but much better than any Fiat Ducato garage. The man's name is Bob, and he will let you know the solution.
Good luck.
Gary

Gary,
In the UK the emergency 5 digit code is witheld from MH owners at I understand, the request of the UK insurance community, but is available for a charge? I would expect to need proof of ownership. Not much help if stuck in the middle of nowhere.

The OP reported in post #3 of this thread. that he had the immobiliser function removed.

 

[SEAN61]

I had the immobilizer function removed from the ECU of my 2006 ducato for the same reason - intermittent starting issues. I only learned about multiecuscan this week. Is it possible to bypass the immobilizer using this software?

 

[godsking]

Intermittent fault - engine starts first time every morning. After a journey and then try to start - the immobiliser light goes on when trying to start. Wait 15 minutes up to 90 minutes and it starts.
I have been looking in here at similar problems - Communicator and a guy in Norway and a user who was going to Italy.
suggested solution is:
The solution was indeed to have the immobilizer circuit…removed from the Ecu.
I pulled the ECU, the immobilizer unit and took them and the key to a guy who repairs Ecus.

So does this mean the ECU is now bypassing the immobiliser?

How do I find a ECU expert to do this? In the UK. I will go anywhere!!!

did you get sorted

 

[varesecrazy]

did you get sorted

These were the only posts by @wanejh

What spec of Ducato are you struggling with..

Mechanical or Electronic fuelling?

Any other electrical niggles ?

 

[Communicator]

I wish to make it clear that my exchanges with @ThorRoger related to a mechanical fuel injection system. where the immobiliser is attached to the pump.

As regards the immobiliser associated with electronic injection systems, I have as reported elsewhere suffered a failure in service, but the engine started at second attempt. Having several subsequent appearances of the dreaded padlock (2 out of 5) while testing,, I took action. This has previously been posted by me in a separate thread, but I will repeat here.

On my x244 I removed the connections to the code receiver and applied contact cleaner before replacing the connectors. eLearn suggests a connector at the aerial itself, but this does not seem to be present on my vehicle. The aerial and short cable appear to be one unit. Despite extensive testing, and some use, the immobiliser symbol has not reappeared.

For x250 and later models the code receiver function is part of the BCM. The x250 training manual gives poles 7 & 8 of the 52 way connector at the lower RH front (vehicle rear) of the BCM as being allocated to the aerial.

 

[NigelNovice]

Intermittent fault - engine starts first time every morning. After a journey and then try to start - the immobiliser light goes on when trying to start. Wait 15 minutes up to 90 minutes and it starts.
I have been looking in here at similar problems - Communicator and a guy in Norway and a user who was going to Italy.
suggested solution is:
The solution was indeed to have the immobilizer circuit…removed from the Ecu.
I pulled the ECU, the immobilizer unit and took them and the key to a guy who repairs Ecus.

So does this mean the ECU is now bypassing the immobiliser?

How do I find a ECU expert to do this? In the UK. I will go anywhere!!!

I have a similar problem with my 2009 Fiat 130 multijet based moho, engine turns over fine, just not starting and a lock symbol on dash I've not seen before, having to strip out and send ECU, Immobiliser and keys off to https://www.autotronics.co.uk/ for hopefully fixing, luckily its on my drive but it put a mockers on going away over Christmas and new year

 

[Communicator]

I have a similar problem with my 2009 Fiat 130 multijet based moho, engine turns over fine, just not starting and a lock symbol on dash I've not seen before, having to strip out and send ECU, Immobiliser and keys off to https://www.autotronics.co.uk/ for hopefully fixing, luckily its on my drive but it put a mockers on going away over Christmas and new year

Hi Nigel,

Did you try reseating/contact cleaner on the plug connecting the aeriel to the BCM?

The padlock symbol should appear for about two seconds when switching the ignition on. Standard advice is to wait until the generally amber lights extinguish, before turning the key to the start position. (The battery and oil icons will of course remain lit until the engine starts.)

 

[NigelNovice]

Hi Nigel,

Did you try reseating/contact cleaner on the plug connecting the aeriel to the BCM?

The padlock symbol should appear for about two seconds when switching the ignition on. Standard advice is to wait until the generally amber lights extinguish, before turning the key to the start position. (The battery and oil icons will of course remain lit until the engine starts.)

Hi, I've had an auto locksmith just prior to Christmas and then finally an auto diagnostic guy the other day, locksmith said its not a key issue as it shows up on scanner, diagnostic chap said same after unplugging and reseating bits and still no joy so then we set to and ripped them out

 

[NigelNovice]

Update - nearly fixed, awaiting part, all the bits came back from Autotronics with a clean bill of health, annoyingly in one way, so my diagnostics man came back to refit the bits and try to solve the puzzle started checking wiring harnesses and fuse boxes, tracing wiring etc. having checked all the fuses in the under bonnet one again he noticed that without fuses in he was getting a reading on the multi meter, so he set to and took the fuse box and and thats when the water came out, on dismantling the box it was suffering from the onset of corrosion, so a new fuse box is on its way, £178 off Ebay, chuffing hurricanes and a stupid hole in the scuttle