Technical How hard is it to install a van aken turbo?

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Technical How hard is it to install a van aken turbo?

EvilJaxx said:
Indeed i also forgot to mention tho that with Trickers 40mm Tb ontop of the mods i listed before you are looking at gains of 105 BHP maybe more...

I also see what your saying about the turbo but for the slight difference in gains of about 5 - 10 BHP more than a fully worked N/A engine the N/A will be faster surely as from the line the turbo will be idle waiting for when it hits the rpm when the boost kicks in so while that is happening the N/A 105 BHP engine is already fully rawing up the road at maximum power all the time...? As at the end of the day the Turbo is only a 1.1, 55BHP or a 1.2, 60BHP or 75 BHP until the turbo kicks in... the N/A are 1.1, 85 BHP or 1.2, 105 BHP is always running at that!

Also again in gains of 5 - 10 BHP is that really worth the relability issues?

YOu are so wrong in your assesment of how a car producess power, any car be it N/A or turbo has to build up to a peak to get its top power, have you ever even seen a print out from a dyno run from a car? in fact you will find that a N/A car will be peakeir than a turbo car and will need to be kept on the boil to be able to extract all the power, and bhp only gives you the top speed of a car versus the drag of the body, torque is a turning force and terefore gives you accleration, by definition bhp is only torque at a given rpm, no car produces anything like its max at tick over rpm!

Therefore if we take a N/A car like lets say a 106 Rallye which has 103 bhp from a 1.3L engine produces 85lbs/torque @ 7400rpm whereas a Cinq with hi-boost like mine gives 104bhp and 109lbs/torque at only 5500rpm, ok there is a slight weight advantage to the Cinq but after having both the Cinq is faster by far although the 106's chassis is so far supperior its untrue and would run rings round a Cinq (this is both with standard suspension)

And as for BMW using N/A engines rumour has it the next M3 will be a twin turbo 3L with over 350bhp or something, not even a BMW motorsport N/A engine can do that and be realiable and cheap enough to produce!

Even VW have turned to Turbo power only on the new GTi to give it a chance.

Aaron
 
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Yes, I have seen a print out of a dyno as my car was on one about 1 month or so ago, I was not using my point as a perfect example of how power is produced I was simply stating that a full worked N/A engine produces more power than a turbo engine before the boost kicks in...

I know that even an N/A car gets more power at higher RPM naturally but still the N/A Seicento or cinq would be faster off the line... than the turbo..

And as for BMW using N/A engines rumour has it the next M3 will be a twin turbo 3L with over 350bhp or something, not even a BMW motorsport N/A engine can do that and be realiable and cheap enough to produce!

The current M3 is a 3.2 Litre 333 BHP N/A engine with 262 lb-ft Torque, dont know where your getting your facts but by no means are M-Power going to produce a turbo engine for the 2006 M3, its going to be a 4 Litre V8 producing 400 BHP and 328 lb-ft Torque.
 
hehe i re read that myself and it didnt make sence, Sorry..

What I meant to say was or point out was for example a 1108 Turbo or a fully worked 1108 N/A, the fully worked N/A engine compared to turbo would have more power off the line until the Turbo kicked in surely, I understand that you still need to rev it higher to get the serious gains in power but am I just being wishful thinking that it does have more power to start with as well...

thats what I think I was saying (y)
 
BMW are producing a twin turbo 3 litre with 'well over 300bhp' for the 335i next summer, you're corect that it's not for the M3 though. New V8 M3 will be here in 2007, apparently.

I know they are going to use turbos for some of their models but I also know they will never use a Turbo or supercharger in any of there M-Power cars as that takes away the point of the M engine :)

My uncle has an M5 and is one of the most knowlegdable person to talk to about all the BMW model's and he confirmed with me about all the information of BMW's M3 as he has close friends who work for BMW in germany etc and if you have never looked in an M5 engine bay there is next to no room as everything is so big to be able to pull 400 BHP out of the current engine and 500 BHP out of the new engine and by no means could you stick a turbo or Supercharger in there without some serious revising of the engine bay!
 
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I'd expect a fully tuned up 1108 or 1242 to have all it's 'go' at the top end of the rev range and little low down, whereas on my 1242 low boost turbo the boost hits hard from about 2500 to 6500+ revs.

If you were to compare the torque curves from n/asp and turbo engines, I'd expect to see the turbo with a higher overall torque figure but at much lower rpm. The n/asp engine won't pull as well at low revs.

If you think of it in the extreme, an F1 engine doesn't produce any real power under about 8000 revs but pulls like a bugger at 17,000.
 
EvilJaxx said:
I know they are going to use turbos for some of their models but I also know they will never use a Turbo or supercharger in any of there M-Power cars as that takes away the point of the M engine :)

Erk! I was looking at the spec's of a BMW Single seater racer using a M-Power 1600cc...Running silly CR and has about 800BHp at 7400rpm I think...That power was mainly due to the huge IHI turbo they bolted onto it.

Theres only so much Normal Aspiration can do in any state of tune, thats why people force the charge in!
 
With regards to a turbo engine having nada power the turbo kicks.. take a fully worked N/A engine, dyno it. Take a turbo'd motor, dyno that. Have a look at the dyno results.. in particular at say.. 2000rpm before the turbo has kicked. I seriously doubt there'd be much difference in power.

I've just written the above, then read up a bit more - and its pretty much what pete has written. Its been a long day!
 
arseofbox said:
Erk! I was looking at the spec's of a BMW Single seater racer using a M-Power 1600cc...Running silly CR and has about 800BHp at 7400rpm I think...That power was mainly due to the huge IHI turbo they bolted onto it.

Theres only so much Normal Aspiration can do in any state of tune, thats why people force the charge in!

Remember the turbo F1 cars? (I don't, I was about 4 when they banned them!)

BMW could get 1500bhp from a 1.5-litre engine by bolting a dirty great dustbin-sized turbo to it. They didn't tend to work for very long though... :D
 
JonnyBoy said:
Remember the turbo F1 cars? (I don't, I was about 4 when they banned them!)

BMW could get 1500bhp from a 1.5-litre engine by bolting a dirty great dustbin-sized turbo to it. They didn't tend to work for very long though... :D


they didnt last very long and had massive lag
 
turbos are fitted to get more power from an engine of given size, i seem to remember that is why this thread started off...it isn't just a case of getting more air in you gotta lower the compression and add the right amount of fuel, then there's the cooling issues...

a lot more turbos out these days due to developments on the dark, sorry diesel side

mercedes for example are not developing any more 'kompressor' supercharged engines as turbos are more cost effective

anyway the cinq turbo conversion CAN work if built and set up properly but equally i have seen several disasters (ask Andy Ellsom 'TBSei' about his Novitech install by those experts at Autodelta)

don't try it at home...as they say
 
Indeed as I have been saying I know turbo's have more power overall than a N/A engine but I said early on turbos are cheaper than having your engine fully worked yet come with relability issues unlike the fully worked N/A can become your very relaible friend (y) and that brings me to Andrew, his car is now a custom 1242 with 4 x 44mm Tb fully worked producing 120 BHP with 90 lb/ft torque, it has the power no doubt but the torque is low compared to a Turbo yet his car running at that kind of performance is far more relaible than a turbo sei or cinq running at the same performance...

To sum this up...

Cinq/Sei Turbo cheaper to buy, produces alot of power and torque but comes with relability issues

Cinq/Sei Fully worked N/A expensive to buy, produces slightly less power (unless you have 4 x 44mm Tb ;) ) and alot less torque but is very relable
 
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