Technical How do I test the wiper motor?

[keithodulaigh]

Hi,

I'm having a problem with my wipers.

• Rear wiper works as expected.
• Front wiper works when stalk down 3 positions.
• Front wiper does not work when stalk down 1 and 2 positions.
• Wiper moves when stalk pushed up but doesn't return to parked position when stalk is let go.
• I can hear a relay clicking when stalk on positions 1 and 2 (but no wiper movement).

Does this sound like a wiper motor or a stalk problem? How can I test the motor with a multimeter? I think there are 5 wires so which do I check for settings 1 and 2?

I've searched the forums and in a similar thread it was the stalk but the relay clicking makes me think otherwise.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[flisko]

my wipers started making problems- juddering if handle was pushed up, or first speed and it was cuz grease came on motor and those prongs werent making contact all the time, i fixed it by wiping away all the grease that was on that round metal thing pic below

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-mk2-2b-guides/129175-fixing-juddering-windscreen-wipers.html

 

[Brendan W]

You could have brush problems in the motor or a water logged motor. I cleaned mine out in 2006 with those exact symptoms and it's been fine until now. One of the three brushes is worn down to the wire and am about to find out how easy it is to get replacements for a Denso TGE 511 motor.

 

[Ziggy122]

It sounds like a water logged wiper motor linkage tbh...
No 1 and intermitant byt on speed 2 it works

Remedy back when mine was like this was new as it rottes it away and id fried it limping my wipers on speed 2 all time

Ziggy

 

[keithodulaigh]

I took the cover off the motor and cleaned that disk. It was covered in grease. Now it is worse though. The wipers just wobble at the parked position on fastest speed. They don't move across the screen at all. No improvement to the intermittent settings either.

 

[Brendan W]

Take the motor off. Clean it out and have a look at the brushes. There should be three. My guess is that one is worn down to the quick or jammed sideways in it's slot. I cannot find brushes online so am waiting till the local auto sparky reopens. Will keep you posted.

 

[keithodulaigh]

Take the motor off. Clean it out and have a look at the brushes. There should be three. My guess is that one is worn down to the quick or jammed sideways in it's slot. I cannot find brushes online so am waiting till the local auto sparky reopens. Will keep you posted.

If I need a new motor then I can send my old brushes to you. Might have to wait a few days until I find out.

 

[flisko]

Take the motor off. Clean it out and have a look at the brushes. There should be three. My guess is that one is worn down to the quick or jammed sideways in it's slot. I cannot find brushes online so am waiting till the local auto sparky reopens. Will keep you posted.

my motor got only 2 brushes

 

[flisko]

I took the cover off the motor and cleaned that disk. It was covered in grease. Now it is worse though. The wipers just wobble at the parked position on fastest speed. They don't move across the screen at all. No improvement to the intermittent settings either.

did u clean this too
tip of the brush makes contact with the round ****

 

[Brendan W]

Just back from the sparky shop. Found a few small brushes but had to rub them down to fit and soldered them in. All speeds work fine now. It was only working on fast speed, nothing at all on the first two positions or flick wipe. The park position needs to be reset, they were parking up the windscreen. Someone may have used them to shift ice. Looks like rain tomorrow.

 

[Brendan W]

Wipers fixed
Replacing the brushes restored the missing speeds but park was not right. After the brush job the wipers first movement was down into the scuttle. The fix is to remove the wiper arms and cycle the flick ( any speed will do) and let the motor come back to it's natural park position. The problem is that the linkage has become shifted relative to the motor. Take out the linkage and motor assembly. Disconnect the two link arms at the back of the motor box.
The arm at the back of the motor had shifted, probably due to someone trying to scrape ice. The correct position for that arm is 9 o'clock as you face the motor. In this case it had shifted all the way to 3 o'clock. To move it, lock the arm with a vice grip or similar and open the 13mm flanged nut. Without turning the spindle remove the arm and relocate it to the 9 o'clock position and tighten the nut whilst holding the arm steady. Reassemble and test before attaching the wiper arms as they can damage themselves if you get it wrong.
Mine is a three brush motor. They changed in 2003 ish.
For the sneaky ones there is a way to reconnect the link arms above the normal position and they work normally with the motor arm in the 'wrong' place. However this seems to make the sloppiness in the spindle bushes worse and the action is jerky.

 

[keithodulaigh]

Wipers fixed
Replacing the brushes restored the missing speeds but park was not right. After the brush job the wipers first movement was down into the scuttle. The fix is to remove the wiper arms and cycle the flick ( any speed will do) and let the motor come back to it's natural park position. The problem is that the linkage has become shifted relative to the motor. Take out the linkage and motor assembly. Disconnect the two link arms at the back of the motor box.
The arm at the back of the motor had shifted, probably due to someone trying to scrape ice. The correct position for that arm is 9 o'clock as you face the motor. In this case it had shifted all the way to 3 o'clock. To move it, lock the arm with a vice grip or similar and open the 13mm flanged nut. Without turning the spindle remove the arm and relocate it to the 9 o'clock position and tighten the nut whilst holding the arm steady. Reassemble and test before attaching the wiper arms as they can damage themselves if you get it wrong.
Mine is a three brush motor. They changed in 2003 ish.
For the sneaky ones there is a way to reconnect the link arms above the normal position and they work normally with the motor arm in the 'wrong' place. However this seems to make the sloppiness in the spindle bushes worse and the action is jerky.

At least one of us is having luck.

I cleaned the disk and those contacts you mentioned but I couldn't get the scuttle off to take the motor out. I'm bringing it for an NCT on Friday. If it fails for just the wipers then that's fine, I will get them sorted and a visual inspection retest will be free. If it comes back with a list of things to do then I can decide what's worth doing.

(I think I have three brushes in my motor as well because there were three contacts and the disk was brass not aluminium. Since mine is 04 maybe the motor was already swapped before me.)

 

[Brendan W]

Mine has two contacts, three brushes and the silver coloured contact plate. If your motor is post 03 you may have the newer type.

 

[keithodulaigh]

How did you take the motor apart? Is it just two screws going through the motor casing that need to come out?

 

[Brendan W]

How did you take the motor apart? Is it just two screws going through the motor casing that need to come out?

Yes. Two torx screws on the motor flange to the worm reduction gearbox. The magnets are quite strong so a bit of a pull is required. If you rotate it as you pull the armature will unwind from the worm wheel and come out with the stator. It helps if the cover of the gearbox is removed so you can see which way unwinds it.
If you just pull straight out you will more than likely leave the armature behind and the brushes will pop out of their slots. No big deal either way in the long run.
What did the NCT guys say?

 

[keithodulaigh]

Yes. Two torx screws on the motor flange to the worm reduction gearbox. The magnets are quite strong so a bit of a pull is required. If you rotate it as you pull the armature will unwind from the worm wheel and come out with the stator. It helps if the cover of the gearbox is removed so you can see which way unwinds it.
If you just pull straight out you will more than likely leave the armature behind and the brushes will pop out of their slots. No big deal either way in the long run.
What did the NCT guys say?

Thanks, will give it a go today or tomorrow.

It passed the NCT with an advisory for the tyres. Nothing was mentioned about the wipers though.

 

[keithodulaigh]

Got a Fiat garage to replace the motor today but now I have another problem.

When set to intermittent the wipers will park themselves at different locations on the windscreen and when I turn on ignition the wipers also come on. The service manager said that the stalk would need to be replaced but a quick search of the forum here suggests that they fitted the motor for a MK2 and not a 2B. Could it possibly the stalk? Find it hard to believe that my motor and switch packed in at the same time.

 

[Brendan W]

I'd say you're on the right track. This is a common error when getting used wiper assemblies from a scrappy. Mine is the older car and the motor is Denso TGE 511 if that helps. And yes I don't believe in co-incidences either.

 

[keithodulaigh]

They fitted the new motor and it works as it should now (first time they'd seen that type of motor they said!)

Then going home on Thursday night and there's a crack in the windscreen starting from under the scuttle (around where the motor & linkage is) going across to the edge. With the weather being icy I can't say for certain what caused it but I won't be going to that garage again.

 

[Brendan W]

Still don't believe in co-incidences. They smacked the glass is the most likely cause. Wouldn't be the first time between dragging the scuttle out with the bonnet fully up and or forcing the motor out with the scuttle still in place or prising the wiper arms off with crowbars. I would call them and tell them so and ask what they are going to do about it. I don't give much for your chances but wouldn't let them clean away with it. Lob one in there and tell 'em you know smacked screens when you see them. Any chance you paid by card? You can stop it.