General High mileage Panda?

[Wh05apk]

Hi all, this is my first post, been lurking a while!

My daughter will be learning to drive soon, and so I am looking for a cheap low insurance car, the Panda kept coming up, and the more I look at them, the more I like them, in concept they are similar to my first cars - The 2CV!!

Generally they seem to have a good reputation for build, but I have seen quite a few 100,000mile + cars quite cheap, this seems a hell of a mileage for such a small engine, but part of me thinks that for a first car, that will likely get knocked a little, and will only doa low mileage, then why not?

Are they the bargains they seem, or would I do better paying an extra £500 for a 50,000 mile car? is there anything to look out for? when are the big services due? what would I expect to pay at an independent?

I am looking for about a 2005/6 car for about £2500.

Sorry for all the questions, but keen to know as much as I can.

 

[trackdayqueen]

I honestly think it would be far better to spend a monkey more and get a car with half the mileage!

 

[Ethan260908]

hi there, whilst not that high mileage my 53 plate 1.2 Dynamic cost me £1500 at the end of Jan 2011. It had almost 87K on it and I have put 1K on it since buying it. I have had the Juddering fault which turned out to be HT leads (£40 to replace), but for a 40 yr old male returning to having his own car insurance after having a motorbike for 15 or so years and with a 2 yr old boy to cart around, it made the most sence against a Ford Ka (too old) Smart 4/2 (turbo trouble reports) or a new Pixo/Aygo (couldn't bear to stomach the depreciation). I wouldn't worry about mileage that much as the wife and I had a Seat Arosa 1.0mpi which went to 155K on original engine/gearbox and clutch and am expecting the Panda to do much the same provided I look after it well. This forum is an excellant place to review people's faults and hence what to look out for in any potential buy - best of luck and let us know how you get on:slayer:

 

[Wh05apk]

Thanks for your quick replies, I have always been cautious of hgh mileage stuff, but on the other hand feel as "new" as possible for the money will be best, a quick surf has bought this up:
oops cant post links, but it is a 2005 1.2 dynamic with panoramic roof + a/c , 108k £2k

Seems a lot of car for the money, and a good spec, although tempted by something like this:
2004 1.2 dynamic 45k same price.

1/2 the mileage, slightly older, but lower spec.

Not looking yet, but suspect I will keep looking for a genuine cared for car, I am always cautious of too low a mileage, as I feel a car needs to be used to keep it running, too low, indicates a lot of around town stop/starting as well.

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

Hello and welcome to the forum

As a driving instructor, your daughter will find the Panda an excellent vehicle in which to learn in. Mine is now on 85k and [touch wood] has been very reliable.

Here's my 60,000 mile review:
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/230471-100hp-60-000-miles-review-long-post-warning.html

I guess the normal rule applies - buy the best car within your budget

 

[billybudge]

Hi Wh05apk

To be honest with you, I have spent many years working on Fiats, especially the Panda, and I know the engine well, the one your looking at is the 1.2 8v, although what I am about to say will offend many Fiat lovers, this engine is / was not built for high mileage, and will need extensive work on engine, mainly gearbox rebuilds,
Is there a service history, if so is it genuine,
100k engine will be on its 2 may be 3 clutch and normally 2 gearbox,
the rest of the car will be superb, biggest concerns are engine and gearbox, although they are very sound with all electrics etc,
the car was designed for city work, average trips etc and in Italy, 90% pf Pandas ie 2004 Dynamic will have about 25 to 30k miles on the clock, europe/uk 2004 panda average 65k,
gearbox problems are common from 35k miles onwards,
sorry to be doom and gloom, however an average low mileage Panda with a good detailed service history with repair work, will be a great investment, and can be very reliable,Great for a first car as spares are becomming more easily ontainable,
I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any questions, I am a senior Fiat secialist Technician,I also work with Abarth with 30 years experince,

 

[udtrev]

Hi Wh05apk

To be honest with you, I have spent many years working on Fiats, especially the Panda, and I know the engine well, the one your looking at is the 1.2 8v, although what I am about to say will offend many Fiat lovers, this engine is / was not built for high mileage, and will need extensive work on engine, mainly gearbox rebuilds,
Is there a service history, if so is it genuine,
100k engine will be on its 2 may be 3 clutch and normally 2 gearbox,
the rest of the car will be superb, biggest concerns are engine and gearbox, although they are very sound with all electrics etc,
the car was designed for city work, average trips etc and in Italy, 90% pf Pandas ie 2004 Dynamic will have about 25 to 30k miles on the clock, europe/uk 2004 panda average 65k,
gearbox problems are common from 35k miles onwards,
sorry to be doom and gloom, however an average low mileage Panda with a good detailed service history with repair work, will be a great investment, and can be very reliable,Great for a first car as spares are becomming more easily ontainable,
I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any questions, I am a senior Fiat secialist Technician,I also work with Abarth with 30 years experince,

My 2005 1.2 Panda had 54,000 on the clock without problems, I only changed it as I wanted some creature comforts

The engine and box were both sweet as a nut and I was getting an average of over 56 mpg

 

[Wh05apk]

Thanks Billybudge some useful info there, what sort of gearbox problems are to be expected, and what sort of price are repairs?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Hi Wh05apk

To be honest with you, I have spent many years working on Fiats, especially the Panda, and I know the engine well, the one your looking at is the 1.2 8v, although what I am about to say will offend many Fiat lovers, this engine is / was not built for high mileage, and will need extensive work on engine, mainly gearbox rebuilds,
Is there a service history, if so is it genuine,
100k engine will be on its 2 may be 3 clutch and normally 2 gearbox,
the rest of the car will be superb, biggest concerns are engine and gearbox, although they are very sound with all electrics etc,
the car was designed for city work, average trips etc and in Italy, 90% pf Pandas ie 2004 Dynamic will have about 25 to 30k miles on the clock, europe/uk 2004 panda average 65k,
gearbox problems are common from 35k miles onwards,
sorry to be doom and gloom, however an average low mileage Panda with a good detailed service history with repair work, will be a great investment, and can be very reliable,Great for a first car as spares are becomming more easily ontainable,
I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any questions, I am a senior Fiat secialist Technician,I also work with Abarth with 30 years experince,

Where exactly are you a fiat tech out of interest?

Also, what's your view on the fact that Fiat have used the FIRE engine for over 2 decades and many of these engines have clocked up well in excess of 150+k without issues?

2-3 clutches on 100k is all depentant on driver and the sort of miles covered, I know several cars with over 100k on the clock on origional clutch, equally is the clutch not classed as a perishable item??

I'm not saying high mileage is a good thing, he'll it's not if the car has been neglected and abused, missed services etc, but if it's been maintained I'd have said there is no issue with one with 100k on the clock.

 

[Goudrons]

I have to agree with Most Easterly, the FIRE came out in the early '80's.
Evidence of service/repair would be a must on any car.
Anything over the magic 70-80K and I'd be looking for a receipt for a cambelt and clutch, or budget for them, also look for evidence of some of repairs to the weak spots, like shocks and wishbone bushes.

In all that time I must be getting on for over 300k with the Uno, Punto, Cinque Sporting and now the Panda.

I've replaced one clutch, one coil pack, a starter motor, a Helicoil fitted to a stripped plug thread and recently with the Panda new rear shocks (Friggin bushes!) along with the general service items, I think that's pretty good.

If it's a first car, keep it simple, there are plenty of 1.1 Actives (the best in my opinion, the Panda was always meant to be a simple car) with little to go wrong, fantastic insurance and mpg, parts aplenty from breakers and Ebay and with the plain plactic bumpers and a good light colour won't show up the knocks, scrapes and bumps badly.

 

[Wh05apk]

Thanks Goudrons, I am erring towards a max of about 60,000miles and agree with you about an active with unpainted bumpers, colour matched ones look much better, but oh so impractical for a starter car!

I assume all panda's have cambelts? when are these due and what would be atypical cost?

Again with the clutch, what sort of cost are these?

 

[Goudrons]

Methinks the cambelts are around 72K, they are fairly easy to replace and the valves are non interference (if the belt snaps the valves don't smash into the pistion heads) which is a bonus. I can't see it being an hour or so labour.

The MJ diesels have a cam chain, but I wouldn't have thought they were on your radar for cost reasons.

It was a while ago I did the Cinque sporting clutch, you can pick up a clutch kit for around £75, and it isn't a nightmare for someone to fit.

http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/
Good for parts

http://eper.fiatforum.com/
Part number and parts breakdown (open with Internet Explorer)


Check out the steering, it's electric and motors/ECU can fail (although it isn't hard to replace with a remanufactured unit)

Front wishbone bushes wear (like most cars)

Rear shock bushes wear/spilt causing a knock on the rear over bumps (cheap to replace)

Remote door locks can cause problems, especially the boot (Active doesn't have this it's manual C/l, or a ciggie lighter for plugging in satnav and the like, though easy to retro fit)

Usually the Actives don't have the dayglo blue seats either, ours are black.
The 1.1 engine is a peach, both me and the Mrs think it's revvier than the dragon in laws 1.2, it's no sports car, but it's happy at 70-80 mph with four in it.

 

[Wh05apk]

Thanks again, been doing some digging, as you say, the engine seems to be non interference, so not as crucial as some cars, so I suspect a lot are left? something to watch for, costs seem to be between £150-£250? which is not too horrendous.
Clutches, can't find much about them, which is probably a good sign, but appears to be around £300 fitted?

I would love an MJ, as personally I prefer diesels, and I would drive the car for work as well, but realistically for the mileage and the budget, I expect we will go petrol.

 

[Goudrons]

I is bored, so I did a little digging.
Most of these are at stealers, so there must be a bit of haggling in there.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2440940.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2478768.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2529405.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2471767.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2077521.htm
Got to be some movement on price with this one!

 

[Wh05apk]

Compared to autotrader some of those seem quite pricey?

Looking along the lines of something like this: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/1/radius/1500/postcode/co49th?logcode=p

 

[Goudrons]

Help, I've gone blind! What a colour combo???

Those others were mostly from dealers and they'd move on price if you armed yourself with the right info.

They buy these in, add a healthy profit and advertise them.
Look at some of these carefully, they're all very similar, year, model, reg numbers???
What you need to think about is where they get them from.

You'd pick up one for this from auction for a lot less.
Most are fleet, 3 to 4 years old and go for a song.

Ours came from Lambard as an ex fleet, full history, 2.5 year old with 12k on the clock. My local dealer had 5 of them, all similar reg numbers, same sort of mileage, all for 5 grand.

Went to Blackbushe auctions and picked up a similar ex fleet, part of the same batch for £2600. It's one letter in the reg different to the one the dealer had on his forecourt!!

 

[Wh05apk]

I did only say like that! agree the colour combo is a bit "loud"!

Good tip about the auctions, might have a look around them, at that price, if I can get a car still in warranty, seems like a no-brainer!

 

[Goudrons]

Ours was part of a fleet, YD57 or YC57.

Looks like the latest fleet out at the moment is WG58 WF58 or there abouts.

Also looks like a Northern Ireland ones have hit the streets as well.

I think they're either ex local authority or a utility company.

 

[Wh05apk]

I live in Colchester, we have colchester car auctions, part of Mannheim near by, I have set up a search on the chain for pandas, so should get alerted to any sales, and can monitor prices, look at any locally.

If I can pick a '58 up within budget, I would be delighted. Thanks again for your help.

 

[ivantate]

As always look at the condition more than the mileage. Plenty of cars in Italy with far higher miles on the same engine and box all driven like they are stolen. Engines like any car now will be good for 150k almost regardless of maintenance.

Clutches do seem to be a bit more sensitive in most fiats but if you can buy private you will know the previous owner and whether they are slippers or not.

Seats in the 04-06 dynamics are a bit love/hate.