Technical HGT variators...

[Yazza54]

The time has come to do the belts on my mk2 hgt, obviously I want to do the variator too.

As I have a friend who is a highly skilled engineer I'm thinking of having the crap plastic washer/spacer from the rebuild kit made in phosphor bronze and replacing the spring.

Are there any other parts in the variator which cause the rattle or just this particular plastic bit. Also are they all rebuildable or do some of the early ones not come apart?

Car is a Y reg, done 62k.. It's not too noisy tbh but will no doubt be on its way out sooner or later. Not a full on diesel noise yet though, mainly just on startup.

If anyone can help it'll be much appreciated, I don't want to take it all apart only to find that the variator isn't rebuildable and have to buy another one anyway and the car be sat there in bits.

Also I know the common answer is to just buy a new one, none of that please, that's too easy.

 

[fingers99]

I've heard of people rebuilding the Alfa ones. Also heard that the rebuilds don't seem to last.

But I'd ask on the Sporting Punto (?) forum or one of the Alfa forums: not that many HGTs on here (but Blu will be along shortly).

 

[a1ant]

Hi mate,

The noise can be made either by the spring getting weak and the washer wearing down, OR the internal splines wearing and having play in them. If its the splines then the repair kit wont solve the problem.

The oem variators have been upgraded and are much better quality now. So if yours is an original from 2001 you probably are better off replacing it (i know you didnt want to hear that but its only a suggestion)

Alan

 

[MikeSalt]

Hi Yazza,

It used to be the case that GSR engineering did a rebuild kit for the variator that had brass internals. However, Fiat eventually concluded that using plastic within the variator was a daft idea and they improved the design (I think, using brass internals too). As a result, GSR stopped producing the upgraded part.

By the way, how do you manage to peel yourself out of the Libra and into the HGT? If there was a GTM at my disposal, the HGT would get neglected for anything requiring only the two seats.

Cheers,

Mick

 

[fingers99]

Must say, I like the Libra, too.

 

[Yazza54]

Cheers guys I'll keep you posted.


The variator isn't too bad at the moment so I'd be surprised if the splines were goosed. It only rattles on startup really then a little bit of a tick sometimes. The rebuild will cost me nothing so I'll give it a go.


In answer to the libra questions, after spending a year sorting the car some prick pulled out on me and it basically got destroyed. I had another kit car after that, a fisher fury with a Yamaha R1 engine, then sold that and ended up getting my kicks on bikes now really miss the libra though would have another

Funnily enough I do enjoy driving the HGT partly because it owes me peanuts but it goes alright and these little fiats ooze fun. Also whilst I wouldn't describe it as fast I've embarrassed a few numptys at the lights who probably thought it's a 1.2

Since we've gone off topic here's some pics lol

Libra



R1 fisher fury


Current bike '01 yamaha R1

 

[Yazza54]

Right for anyone who's interested I did my belts and rebuilt the variator, replaced the plastic washer with one I had made out of phosphor bronze and fitted a new spring.

The car is now silent! So smooth, not sure if it pulls stronger or whether it's just a placebo effect but it's nicer to drive anyway.

I've read a lot of people say the variators can't or shouldn't be rebuilt, this is utter ********. But, if you're going to do it, do it right. Buy the rebuild kit for 10-15 quid, give the plastic washer to someone to make, and use the spring.

Ok I know that most people probably don't have a engineer friend that doesn't mind knocking little bits up, but it's well worth it if you do, or if you have to pay someone it'll still cost nothing like the cost of a new one.

My plastic washer was worn but not ****ed. The splines and innards in general were like new in the variator after 62k miles. The thought that people throw these away is ridiculous, there's only 2 parts in the thing that could wear really - the spring might loose some tension and the washer will wear. I've heard people say the splines could wear but after seeing mine after 62k I struggle to see how the splines could be knackered even at 100k. Only way I can imagine that happen is if the variator was suffering oil starvation.

So, all in all very happy.

If anyone has any questions on how to do this etc please feel free to ask me. Just thought I'd let you all know how I got on

 

[a1ant]

Hi mate,

Glad you've sorted it and thanks for updating the thread!

Alan

 

[Yazza54]

 

[s and b]

any more photos?
very interesting
love that libra,never seen one before isit a hill climber?

 

[Yazza54]

Hi mate

Didn't take loads of pics of the variator, to be honest they're quite simple inside. The libra is just a road going kit car, they're a good road car too, the fisher fury would absolutely annihilate it though speed wise.

 

[s and b]

Hi mate

Didn't take loads of pics of the variator, to be honest they're quite simple inside. The libra is just a road going kit car, they're a good road car too, the fisher fury would absolutely annihilate it though speed wise.

libra looks purer though

 

[tjr]

Right for anyone who's interested I did my belts and rebuilt the variator, replaced the plastic washer with one I had made out of phosphor bronze and fitted a new spring.

The car is now silent! So smooth, not sure if it pulls stronger or whether it's just a placebo effect but it's nicer to drive anyway.

I've read a lot of people say the variators can't or shouldn't be rebuilt, this is utter ********. But, if you're going to do it, do it right. Buy the rebuild kit for 10-15 quid, give the plastic washer to someone to make, and use the spring.

Ok I know that most people probably don't have a engineer friend that doesn't mind knocking little bits up, but it's well worth it if you do, or if you have to pay someone it'll still cost nothing like the cost of a new one.

My plastic washer was worn but not ****ed. The splines and innards in general were like new in the variator after 62k miles. The thought that people throw these away is ridiculous, there's only 2 parts in the thing that could wear really - the spring might loose some tension and the washer will wear. I've heard people say the splines could wear but after seeing mine after 62k I struggle to see how the splines could be knackered even at 100k. Only way I can imagine that happen is if the variator was suffering oil starvation.

So, all in all very happy.

If anyone has any questions on how to do this etc please feel free to ask me. Just thought I'd let you all know how I got on

Hi @Yazza54 (last seen here in 2015...!) and/or brass washer and/or variator experts out there...

Any feedback how a/the brass washers held out over time as compared to the plastic/teflon/nylon ones? The service kits are still available, but all seem to be with the latter (material) washer.

Anyone has opened up a 2010 or later variator in non-rebuilt state and can describe or show pictures how the design/materials changed?

The variator part numbers (most recent to oldest) 71738360, 60666199, 60651965, 60617917, 60603804, 60815644, 60813501, 60811815, and 55202772, all appear to be interchangeable. Comments?

 

[Yazza54]

I only had the car a year or so after that to be honest but it stayed quiet ISH for the time I had it and I did drive it every day, and wasn't soft on it!

 

[tjr]

I only had the car a year or so after that to be honest but it stayed quiet ISH for the time I had it and I did drive it every day, and wasn't soft on it!

Wow, never thought that would happen! Thank you kindly for the feedback, much appreciated

Do you recall what inspired you to go for brass as compared to the plastic/teflon/nylon washer (eg do later variators have brass washers)?

Another shot in the dark, you don't recall who bought the Punto from you, and/or if that person might be a member here (if "only" an e-mail address and you'd be willing, sending it to me as a DM would probably be best)? I realise it's a few years ago...

 

[Yazza54]

Wow, never thought that would happen! Thank you kindly for the feedback, much appreciated

Do you recall what inspired you to go for brass as compared to the plastic/teflon/nylon washer (eg do later variators have brass washers)?

Another shot in the dark, you don't recall who bought the Punto from you, and/or if that person might be a member here (if "only" an e-mail address and you'd be willing, sending it to me as a DM would probably be best)? I realise it's a few years ago...

I part ex'd it, it probably got crushed in all honestly lol

Can't remember why I went for brass. I think I figured they went for a soft material for a reason so I went for a soft metal