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Technical Hesitancy / lack of power in 1st Gear

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Technical Hesitancy / lack of power in 1st Gear

M

mylovely500

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Mar 3, 2012
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Hi All

Hoping that this forum can be a bit of a help with an odd problem with my wife's 500 (a 2009 1.2 manual lounge). We've had the car from new and it has done 20K miles with no issues up till now.

I drove it today and it appears to have an issue when pulling away in first gear as follows:

1) Let up clutch and depress accelerator, at which point as the car is moving forwards the power drops off (but the engine doesn't stall). If you keep your foot on the accelerator the car only creeps forward without picking up. If however the clutch is disengaged and reengaged or your foot is removed from the accelerator and then it re-applied, it revs smoothly and pulls away. It is not jerky but hesitant as though stuggling for fuel or air under load

2) My own tests show that this only happens in first gear and only ever after the car has first been stated up. Ie if I stop the car, apply the handbrake, put the car into neutral, but don't switch off the engine, then I can pull away smoothly without problems. If however, I stop the car and do as above but switch the engine off and then restart it, the problem re-occurs on trying to move off?

The fact that it only displays this symptom if the engine has been switched off, and then only the once, is odd but would seem to point to it being a fuel / breathing proble rather than a clutch or transmission issue.

Does anyone have any ideas???
 
Sorry to hear you have a problem. You haven't stated what servicing routine you've had on the vehicle since new. I'm assuming that you've had the plugs changed at 18000 miles as just one example? Reason for mentioning plugs, if you are doing short journeys, they can coke up a bit and might need cleaning. If they haven't been changed, they might even be finished. Also, 2009 car, has the breather pipe been replaced? Unsure if that would cause a problem myself, just know people have had issues with breather pipes. Has the air filter been changed? You might have a really dirty fuel filter, though the servicing regime states 36000 miles for a fuel filter replacement. Sorry to go through obvious things, but it's only the sort of immediate checks I would do with my own car. You might even need a diagnostic check to trace the issue.

Whatever, I hope you get it sorted.
 
Thanks for your reply, it's had the full servicing schedule, low mileage at year 1 (7K) and a 2nd year service in 2011 at 13K. I,m not sure if its an electrical issue as there is no problem on starting. I did wonder if it might be the breather pipe issue that I saw mentioned on here as a common problem, there has been a slight fuelly smell in the cabin, could it also cause these sort of issues? The breather pipe has never been changed - any idea how I check it. There are no dashboard warning lights on, would a cracked breather pipe activate any?
 
Fuel smell in the cabin rings a bit of a bell having read some forum members troubles. If Fiat have been servicing your car, one would have thought they might have changed the breather pipe anyway if yours has the old type that was prone to cracking. If an independent has been servicing the car, they may not have picked up on it or they might not be aware there has been an issue with the slightly older 500's. I think the breather pipe is the one that comes out of the back of the air filter box at the rear right close to the bulkhead. I might be completely wrong on that, I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell you for certain. Once located, you'll see if there is a problem with the pipe, it will be visibily cracked if you grab hold of it and pinch or bend it slightly. Going rate for a replacement pipe, is about £12 I believe. I've seen original Fiat replacements on the famous auction site too.

Just picking up about your servicing and the fact you are now on 20k. Have you had the 3rd year service yet or is it due to go in soon? Just thinking about the plugs again. They really should be changed at 18000 miles. If they weren't done at 13k on your second service, then they will be over the recommended mileage window. Worth checking your service sheets.
 
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Thanks for your reply. It's had the servicing done at a Fiat main dealer including the 18K which did include plugs. 3rd year service is due in August.

The clutch fluid is OK. I've located the breather pipe which runs off the bottom of the airfilter box an had a feel it seems to be very scabby and 'bubbly' underneath from what I can feel so it may be that. Would that cause the hesitancy / fuel starvation problems I'm seeing??

I think I'll order the part off fleabay does anyone know the correct part # as there are a number of them listed there? 2009 1.2 Lounge
 
mylovely500 said:
I think I'll order the part off fleabay does anyone know the correct part # as there are a number of them listed there? 2009 1.2 Lounge
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone will be along soon with the part numbers but before you hit the "Buy It Now" button, I believe a redesigned breather is now available which doesn't have the inherent defect of the original - so just be careful you don't get one of the old type.

And take care when removing the airbox, as they are a bit fragile.
 
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Personally, I think I would be disappointed if Fiat Technicians hadn't picked up on the breather pipe issue (if you have the original design hose) having serviced the car in your own case (Mylovely500) on two occasions. Maybe though, I'm expecting far too much. After all, if the customer doesn't know about an issue and doesn't complain or the problem hasn't quite manifested itself, what incentive is there for a simple check/replacement job by the dealership during a routine service schedule? Obvious incentive imo, should be good customer service in the hope of repeated custom.
 
jrkitching said:
I'm sure someone will be along soon with the part numbers but before you hit the "Buy It Now" button, I believe a redesigned breather is now available which doesn't have the inherent defect of the original - so just be careful you don't get one of the old type.

And take care when removing the airbox, as they are a bit fragile.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

I have no experience of these breather pipe problems (Click here) since I didn't have the 1.2 model but here is an example of a relevant link...
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/269403-second-breather-pipe.html

Part no....
Fiat Grande Punto500 Panda Modified Breather Hose Pipe 71769083

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Grande-Punto-500-Panda-Modified-Breather-Hose-Pipe-71769083-/120857736331?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D120743307679%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6763138759409781717#ht_980wt_1039
 
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Thanks! I've ordered it and will let you know how I get on. Does anyone think that the breather could have caused these problems?
 
The new breather pipe should be with me tomorrow, apparently it's the imprived Fiat version. If I fit this myself will this have any impact on my warranty status?
 
RobinPJ said:
Call me stupid, but why are you not having the dealer do it for you for nothing under the warranty?
Click to expand...

I was under the impression (possibly wrongly) from other posts on here that dealers are not doing breather pipes under warranty during the 3rd year 'dealer' warranty period?
 
You may be right. I would certainly ask. I would also very much expect them to do it given that it is such a known problem. In fact, I'd expect them to do it outside the warranty period (not that they would).
 
Yep, I think you would have a reasonable chance of getting it fitted for free as you are providing the dealer with the part.

I would speak to Fiat Customer Services first and get their take on it. Really they should fit it for free as the original part is obviously defective - as has been proven time and time again on here.

The number is 00800 3428 0000 by the way.
 
Hi all I've changed the breather pipe Ok (it really was a 10 minute job) but I'm still experiencing the same odd symptoms as per my first post as follows:

I drove it today and it appears to have an issue when pulling away in first gear as follows:

1) Let up clutch and depress accelerator, at which point as the car is moving forwards the power drops off (but the engine doesn't stall). If you keep your foot on the accelerator the car only creeps forward without picking up. If however the clutch is disengaged and reengaged or your foot is removed from the accelerator and then it re-applied, it revs smoothly and pulls away. It is not jerky but hesitant as though stuggling for fuel or air under load

2) My own tests show that this only happens in first gear and only ever after the car has first been stated up. Ie if I stop the car, apply the handbrake, put the car into neutral, but don't switch off the engine, then I can pull away smoothly without problems. If however, I stop the car and do as above but switch the engine off and then restart it, the problem re-occurs on trying to move off?

The fact that it only displays this symptom if the engine has been switched off, and then only the once, is odd but would seem to point to it being a fuel / breathing proble rather than a clutch or transmission issue.

Does anyone have any ideas???
 
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