I like it. It has personality and the design team has more than nodded to the heritage of the Panda brand.
General Here it is, officially the new Panda
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General Here it is, officially the new Panda
I definitely see a lot of references to the first two boxy 80s models in it
I suppose the genuine question would be why you would expect them to have callbacks to a car that if you miss it you can still buy?
Or indeed talk about but studiously avoid buying..
Or indeed talk about but studiously avoid buying..
It's my understanding that this discussion is around the new Panda and what we all think of it. Why does it matter if I personally buy (or plan to buy one?) any more than say... you or others buying one? I have opinions on Ferrari's but I'm not in the market for one of those... .. .
Current models new and used are over-priced, on top of that, I couldn't find a good spec one either. I can deal with the inflated price for the right spec, or I can deal with a low spec at a reasonable price, but not both at once. Hence the Lexus. Although I'd trade it tomorrow if someone offered me a 2023-4, top spec outgoing Panda - but that's not going to happen is it?
Probably not on the basis outside of Italy they have been selling very few for many years the majority of which will have been low spec cars.
If a company was switched on and looking to make some money they could perhaps keep the old one on in the country where it sells well and offer something a bit different but along similar lines. If they wanted to tap in to a nostalgia market they could make it look a bit like a beloved original while updating all the bits to a modern standard.
But no one would be that visionary..
If a company was switched on and looking to make some money they could perhaps keep the old one on in the country where it sells well and offer something a bit different but along similar lines. If they wanted to tap in to a nostalgia market they could make it look a bit like a beloved original while updating all the bits to a modern standard.
But no one would be that visionary..
Seems to me that they did a pretty good job, doing just that with the 2007 modern 500...
Did Stellantis publish anywhere who designed this latest model? When I search 'Roberto Giolito' and 'Fiat Panda', I can only see interviews, press events and commentary on the current Panda.
I suppose it's his design language and how he continued across the modern 500 styling to the outgoing Panda that I hoped we'd have had in the successor. If you look dead-on the side profile of the outgoing model, the headlights appear as round as the 500's... that little detail impressed me with the two cars being so different that they could maintain distinctive characters and purposes but clearly be from the same design ethos. In the way that the 500e got modernised for the 2020s, I hoped we'd see something similar to the Panda in being true to it's post-2000 form
Do you remember this special edition 500?
It has an original 500 to scale on the side.
This was even more sacrilege given the engine was in the wrong end and everything! Also it had 4 cylinders not 2 and some weird device called a radiator.
It has an original 500 to scale on the side.
This was even more sacrilege given the engine was in the wrong end and everything! Also it had 4 cylinders not 2 and some weird device called a radiator.
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Some of them had two cylinders in the form of the Twin-Air, but even the four cylinders had the iconic all-Fiat design FIRE engine! ...handbuilt by robots and all that
So to recap.
1.The nuovo Fiat 500 was significantly larger than the old Fiat 500 as the picture makes very clear.
2. The Fiat 500 was a re-skin of an existing model into something a bit nicer inside and more profitable that was posher than the original car.
3. The Fiat 500 had 0 parts in common with the original Fiat 500 and did not reference the Panda which was the car that actually replaced the original 500 (indirectly via 126).
4. The 500 was a significantly more complex modern car that just looked at bit like a 40 odd year old design.
Does any of this sound familiar when it comes to discussion of the new Panda?
Oh and depending on my car needs yes I would happily replace the C3 with the new Panda...ideally in green.
1.The nuovo Fiat 500 was significantly larger than the old Fiat 500 as the picture makes very clear.
2. The Fiat 500 was a re-skin of an existing model into something a bit nicer inside and more profitable that was posher than the original car.
3. The Fiat 500 had 0 parts in common with the original Fiat 500 and did not reference the Panda which was the car that actually replaced the original 500 (indirectly via 126).
4. The 500 was a significantly more complex modern car that just looked at bit like a 40 odd year old design.
Does any of this sound familiar when it comes to discussion of the new Panda?
Oh and depending on my car needs yes I would happily replace the C3 with the new Panda...ideally in green.
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OP
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This is what makes me laugh time and time again throughout this thread, is the often parroted "its not a real fiat...."
The Fire engine was actually a joint development effort by Fiat and PSA Group...... The very same people who jointly have built this new panda. Oh and it was designed by an external company.
The 169 and later 312 panda share so much in common with a Cinquecento you can literally drop a new 500 Abarth engine into a cinquecento using the same engine mounts.... yes a lot else has changed over the years but the basic engine block and engine mounts have stayed the same, and the 500/panda shares DNA with those older small cars.
The Cinquecento was not originally a fiat developed car and grew out of research carried out into small cars which launched both the Cinq and the Renault Twingo. initially the Cinq was sold in Poland under a different name entirely. So really the current Panda/500 is just an evolution of a much older car and engine which were developed jointly with other companies.
Most of the Cars that fiat have made over the last 30 years have either been in collaboration with other companies, such as the Croma, overlapping with the Vectra and Saab 93. or the Grande Punto/Vauxhall.
Most of the "development" of fiats own cars such as the Coupe and the multipla can be traced back to the 80s.
Fiat honestly hasn't released or developed its own cars since the 90s truth be told, they are either evolutions of older models, or straight up, body swaps on other peoples cars.
Even their engines have not really undergone major changes till the last few years with the firefly, but that was too little too late and has already seemingly gone by the wayside.
The most powerful fire engines still share DNA with the 1980s fire engines.
The 1.3 Multijet was actually a reconfigured firefly engine.
The 1.9/1.6 multijet engines were derrived from vauxhall/GM engines.
Honestly they have been coasting for years and this merger was the kick up the arse they needed.
If anyone thinks this or any other new car fiat makes is "not a proper fiat" then they need to take a look at the full back story and origins of fiats other models over the last 30+ years.
The new Panda is a lovely looking thing, rather better than many of the fat SUVs everything else is.
I see it has the current PSA 'square' steering wheel. (Early Allegro, anyone?) I've used this wheel on several PSA models, and really would prefer a round one. Some models do have round ones, so one hopefully would be available.
The lack of spare wheel troubles me. My Fabia has needed its spare 3 times in 5 years. The Panda, once in 17 years. I have needed a spare occasionally over my driving life, and cannot think of a single situation when not having a spare would have been manageable. During a working day, a breakdown company can rescue you, take the wheel away for a new tyre or repair, or fit a temporary wheel with multiple mounting holes, but outside normal working hours, you are stuffed. Imagine being 100 miles from home, on a cold wet Satruday late afternoon. The Doblo van comes without a spare, as the normal underfloor storage is taken when the floor is dropped for the wheelchair ramp. A wheelchair vehicle without a spare brings a whole new hideous situation. I've added a space-saver, mounted vertically at the side of the rear cabin. May never need it. Peace of mind is valuable.
I can understand manufacturers deleting the spare. But I want space to add one.
I see it has the current PSA 'square' steering wheel. (Early Allegro, anyone?) I've used this wheel on several PSA models, and really would prefer a round one. Some models do have round ones, so one hopefully would be available.
The lack of spare wheel troubles me. My Fabia has needed its spare 3 times in 5 years. The Panda, once in 17 years. I have needed a spare occasionally over my driving life, and cannot think of a single situation when not having a spare would have been manageable. During a working day, a breakdown company can rescue you, take the wheel away for a new tyre or repair, or fit a temporary wheel with multiple mounting holes, but outside normal working hours, you are stuffed. Imagine being 100 miles from home, on a cold wet Satruday late afternoon. The Doblo van comes without a spare, as the normal underfloor storage is taken when the floor is dropped for the wheelchair ramp. A wheelchair vehicle without a spare brings a whole new hideous situation. I've added a space-saver, mounted vertically at the side of the rear cabin. May never need it. Peace of mind is valuable.
I can understand manufacturers deleting the spare. But I want space to add one.
If they follow what they've done on the C3 then the lack of space for a spare is EV specific and you can option one on the ICE engined ones.
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Didn't fiat introduce the square wheel on the later 2011/12 model where they made a big deal about "Squircle" square-circles as a feature of the panda at that time.
I can't say I can remember driving a car with a wheel like this but I am old enough to remember discussions about the allegro when I was young and the square steering wheel at that time.
These days it seems everyone is trying to do something fancy with the wheel weather that be making it more of a yoke like in some teslas or drastically contouring it like in many performance cars , Probabaly like yourself, I prefer something that will slip easily through my hands when I want it too, but have good grip and feel when using it, I'm really not into gimmicky steering wheels.
While having a spare wheel is handy, we've had minis for nearly 15 years now and non of them had spares, they all had run flats and I can think of only one occasion I would have needed a spare, when a piece of broken Stanley knife blade went into the tire, I was able to drive it to the tire shop and get it replaced easily without any drama.
My golf I have had for 9 years nearly only once did the spare ever get used when a huge nail went through the tire and out the tire wall so no hope of patching it or driving on it. other than that and having picked up punctures a few times, 2 this year, a quick blast of air from a tire pump was adequate to get me to the tire shop and either have it repaired or the tire replaced. I have cans of tire foam that I could use in the event of a puncture, but I have found they don't work very well and the tire still went down even after using one.
but I can see why manufacturers now include pumps and bottles of the foam, realistically for me having a pump has been more useful than having a spare over the last decade or so.
1. Of course, 40 years… whatever the size class of the original 500, I presume it was the smallest car size of its time (bar the BMW Isetta class, but I’m sure even that is what the Twizy is today and not really a car). So the A-segment being the smallest size today, fair enough for the size increase.
2. Nothing wrong with that, it was a commercial success.
3. Again, nothing wrong with that, but what it was based off of, was the 169 Panda - which by no means was a bad thing, a wholly Fiat developed car and another runaway success for them.
4. Again, of course, why would they strive to put an air cooled two cylinder engine into a much heavier, modern car..
I don’t see how any of that really relates to the New Panda sharing with the new C3. I mentioned the new (2007) 500 in terms of its designer and how he managed to make it look like the 500 classic, and making the 2012 Panda look like the 2000s Panda, but keeping the design ethos of modern 500 styling, along with a modernised Panda design sold alongside it, which was distinctively obviously that 2003 Panda, but also related visually to it’s less practical, more retro 500 sibling. I thought that was quite genius and the only point I was making was that I’d have liked to see this new Panda from the same designer (which nobody seems to be able to prove it is from so far), and that they did what they did with the 500e evolving the 2007 500 design. Perhaps this idea isn’t being grasped, but in any case, that’s not what they’ve done.
Whether it’s for better… or for worse… it is, that the new one is simply the shell of a C3. The Punto comparison to the Corsa is adequate - but I bet that still had a lot more Vauxhall stuff in the Corsa…and Fiat stuff in the Punto. This is different because whether Fiat and Vauxhall merged with PSA or not… I’d say there’s a good chance this precise model would still have been released under the C3 / 208 names with the same design, drivetrains and switch gear… It’s sad that this is just a panel / styling job with a name stuck on it. As nice as that name, badge and styling is - and it’s superb. But it’s the end of a ‘blood line’ of Fiat’s drivetrains, Fiat’s parts bin, Fiat’s own designers being to shape it freely without needing to conform to a very rigid, very defined product roadmap as they now need to.
It’s just like VAG.. how do you want your Polo? Skoda plastic, or Audi soft touch plastic? - and it works. No shame in it, people buy it, people ultimately don’t care. And my opinion isn’t special on it, I’m just saying it’s a shame, I wanted to see the next actual Fiat incarnation. But you guys take issue with my speculation on it which is entertaining because I have no shortage of essay writing to respond to it..
Oh and unlike Vauxhall, Fiat’s old models weren’t utter crap that the industry will be glad to be rid of which is why it’s a greater loss than GMs lousy engines and platforms which are frankly better as reshaped 208s.
I’ll put it here now in July 2024, if and when this EV thing falls through and legislation eases, or becomes more Hybrid oriented, I can see a future Fiat breaking off, shedding the crap it gained with the Chrysler merger and possibly being independent again when it comes back to reality of building efficient engine(like) powertrains and normal, practical cars. Especially if and when the EU and Western countries introduce protectionist policies to prevent damage from Chinese tat (ICE and EVs) after the eventual wasted space they’ll be taking up on our roads, driveways and scrap yards like nothing we’ve ever seen in a decade or so. If you want to criticise my take, criticise that one ;-)
I like the new Panda, not as much as I’d have liked a Fiat New Panda, but I’ll admire it as a ‘nice C3’ when I start to see em.
Got excited there for a minute in thinking the square wheel could have been a reference to the ‘squircle’ theme of the outgoing model…
Has your Fabia got low profile tyres on it? Or are you just driving it more sustained over a variety of roads leading to more punctures?
OP
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Take issue with your speculation........ noooooo, but your ability to form a consistent opinion from researched information, yes.
Everything you post may be your own opinion but is also largely based in fantasy.
Oh and just for a laugh.
It does in deed, case in point, a person (not mentioning any names but we'll call him "Shane" had a perfectly good Toyota, with no faults, and replaced it with a fairly lack luster and dated Lexus....
In other news… keeping it about cars…
www.autocar.co.uk
A glimmer of hope for the Panda family… new French Panda… current Panda and 500 ‘Hybrids’.
I wonder what a Stellantis developed 500e successor will look like…
is there a world in which the 500e platform is further developed and made into a spin off Alfa and DS sub-B segment city car with premium pricing to justify the extensive R&D…
Fiat 500 hybrid gets second generation as drivers "turn back" on EVs | Autocar
New 500 Ibrida will use adapted version of 500e's platform; move secures combustion model's future
A glimmer of hope for the Panda family… new French Panda… current Panda and 500 ‘Hybrids’.
I wonder what a Stellantis developed 500e successor will look like…
is there a world in which the 500e platform is further developed and made into a spin off Alfa and DS sub-B segment city car with premium pricing to justify the extensive R&D…
Not particularly low profile, 185/60 15. Just seem prone to picking up small screws.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Yep thats right me, and my money who both have a problem. If I buy something that big it will surely be a Jag.
Every time there's contractors in, other than the takeaway containers and wrappers they leave around the street, there's usually off-cuttings and screws left behind building up in the corner where I usually park. Found a screw in the Avensis tyre in January (no idea how long it had been there) but I was over due to check it in the winter.. didn't seem to be causing any issues or deflation but had it removed the same day. Wonder if that's the benefit of 'reinforced' tyres. If so, maybe worth the money?
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