Technical Help. Which battery do I replace??

[Nurds]

Hi. Hope someone can help me. I have a 2015 Hobby Vantana campervan (UK model) based on a Fiat Ducato and I need to replace the leisure battery. Is it the one under the drivers seat?

I only ask because when I phoned to order a battery they said this was a starter battery! There’s a second battery in the floor in front of the passenger seat but I believe this is the engine battery?

I have since been told that the one under the seat is correct but I must purchase one with “start-stop” functionality because of the alternator on the vehicle. The one under the seat is an EXIDE EK950 95 Ah 850A(EN).

Could someone please confirm.
Much appreciated.
Steve

 

[portland_bill]

The EK950 does appear to be a stop/start battery.

The normal 'starter' battery on any vehicle, is designed to give a big push of current to start the engine, then effectively sit back and relax, while the alternator provides the current to run everything. They also provide a function of smoothing out the power supply. These batteries, whether stop/start or older more conventional types, do not like being used to power stuff until they are nearly flat, then recharged. That is called deep cycling. A leisure battery is designed to be deep cycled, and is usually much more expensive.

Your handbook should point you towards the normal vehicle battery location. If you disconnect one of the batteries at a time, and see what functions fail, you'll determine which is the 'starter' and which is the auxiliary.

With the cost of leisure batteries, it is quite common for owners to fit normal starter batteries, on motorhomes, golf carts, electric lawnmowers, etc. The starter batteries when deep cycled have a significantly shorter life. Conversely, leisure batteries do not like being asked to start engines, and will fail prematurely if asked to do so on a frequent basis. I wonder if a previous owner, or the motorhome builder, fitted the cheap option of a starter battery.

 

[Nurds]

The EK950 does appear to be a stop/start battery.

The normal 'starter' battery on any vehicle, is designed to give a big push of current to start the engine, then effectively sit back and relax, while the alternator provides the current to run everything. They also provide a function of smoothing out the power supply. These batteries, whether stop/start or older more conventional types, do not like being used to power stuff until they are nearly flat, then recharged. That is called deep cycling. A leisure battery is designed to be deep cycled, and is usually much more expensive.

Your handbook should point you towards the normal vehicle battery location. If you disconnect one of the batteries at a time, and see what functions fail, you'll determine which is the 'starter' and which is the auxiliary.

With the cost of leisure batteries, it is quite common for owners to fit normal starter batteries, on motorhomes, golf carts, electric lawnmowers, etc. The starter batteries when deep cycled have a significantly shorter life. Conversely, leisure batteries do not like being asked to start engines, and will fail prematurely if asked to do so on a frequent basis. I wonder if a previous owner, or the motorhome builder, fitted the cheap option of a starter battery.

Thanks @portland_bill. I don’t trust myself to start messy around with batteries. I bought the Hobby new and it would seem they do tend to fit these stop start batteries. The other battery in the floor is a FIAMM 12v 950Ah 800A. I have been told this is the starter battery though??

Problem is that I need to order one quickly to get it fitted. But I don’t know which one without getting them tested?
Thanks.

 

[Communicator]

@Nurds,

Please do not disconnect your starter battery, without first consulting your vehicle hanbook or the entry Battery Maintenance and Replacement in the "Guides section" at the top of the Ducato page.

The starter battery in the x250 and later models, is indeed the battery under the cab floor.

If your vehicle has, as you state, stop start technology, then it is highly desireable that a Battery to Battery (B2B) is fitted between the habitation electrics, and the base vehicle system. Also you may find this thread interesting.

An essential safety precaution to follow when disconnecting vehicle batteries, is to disconnect the negative first, and reconnect it last.

 

[Nurds]

@Nurds,

Please do not disconnect your starter battery, without first consulting your vehicle hanbook or the entry Battery Maintenance and Replacement in the "Guides section" at the top of the Ducato page.

The starter battery in the x250 and later models, is indeed the battery under the cab floor.

If your vehicle has, as you state, stop start technology, then it is highly desireable that a Battery to Battery (B2B) is fitted between the habitation electrics, and the base vehicle system. Also you may find this thread interesting.

An essential safety precaution to follow when disconnecting vehicle batteries, is to disconnect the negative first, and reconnect it last.

Hi @Communicator I’m not doing anything to the vehicle. I just need to know which battery to order. Thanks.

 

[portland_bill]

Hi. Hope someone can help me. I have a 2015 Hobby Vantana campervan (UK model) based on a Fiat Ducato and I need to replace the leisure battery. Is it the one under the drivers seat?

I only ask because when I phoned to order a battery they said this was a starter battery! There’s a second battery in the floor in front of the passenger seat but I believe this is the engine battery?

I have since been told that the one under the seat is correct but I must purchase one with “start-stop” functionality because of the alternator on the vehicle. The one under the seat is an EXIDE EK950 95 Ah 850A(EN).

Could someone please confirm.
Much appreciated.
Steve

Fiamm is an Italian company. It is likely that this is the original battery supplied by Fiat with the base vehicle, before conversion. Fiamm do make different batteries for different applications, so more detail would be needed to determine what type it is. If you look at this website, you will immediately see a bewildering choice of battery ranges, expecting the buyer to know which they want. Not useful when you need help to choose, but could help identify what you have. https://ukbatterysales.co.uk/brand/fiamm/
The one under the floor should be the original battery, for starting the engine and powering the base vehicle.
The one under the seat, is presumably above the floor, so is fitted in a spare space, so would be the auxiliary battery. That ideally should be a leisure battery, not a normal starter battery.
During conversion, it is possible that the original battery was removed, and of course, they might be transposed when fitting the pair.
Might be an idea to visit your nearest motorhome dealer, and ask about the batteries. They would also recommend the correct leisure battery for your needs. Make a note of the details, as their price may not be the best.

 

[Nurds]

Fiamm is an Italian company. It is likely that this is the original battery supplied by Fiat with the base vehicle, before conversion. Fiamm do make different batteries for different applications, so more detail would be needed to determine what type it is. If you look at this website, you will immediately see a bewildering choice of battery ranges, expecting the buyer to know which they want. Not useful when you need help to choose, but could help identify what you have. https://ukbatterysales.co.uk/brand/fiamm/
The one under the floor should be the original battery, for starting the engine and powering the base vehicle.
The one under the seat, is presumably above the floor, so is fitted in a spare space, so would be the auxiliary battery. That ideally should be a leisure battery, not a normal starter battery.
During conversion, it is possible that the original battery was removed, and of course, they might be transposed when fitting the pair.
Might be an idea to visit your nearest motorhome dealer, and ask about the batteries. They would also recommend the correct leisure battery for your needs. Make a note of the details, as their price may not be the best.

Thanks @portland_bill that’s very helpful.

 

[mikefitz406]

The battery under the seat is the 'house' battery powering all the 12v systems in the 'caravan' parts of your vehicle. Most of the so called 'leasure batteries' are re labeled starter batteries. If the battery has CCA specified its a starter battery. The battery you are replacing, a stop start AGM, could be a useful house battery provided the vans electrical system charger is configured for AGM charging.
If you have had good service from the existing battery, expect 3 years, the replace with similar.
If opting for alternatives consider the physical size as space may be limited.
Very few caravan/ motorhome dealers have adequate knowledge about batteries and will sell you something with 'leasure battery' on the label.
Since the battery is under your seat a sealed AGM that's spill proof would be my recommendation. Consider,

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-95ah-varta-agm-dual-purpose-leisure-battery-la95/

Mike

 

[Nurds]

Hi @mikefitz406 very useful thank you. I managed over 7 years on the existing EXIDE battery so will order one of those again. Cheers.

 

[Ocwobio]

Speak to A&N Caravans, in Colwyn Bay. They know batteries inside out. Visit their website for more info than you can handle on the subject. They'll boil it down if you speak to them.

 

[HughJampton]

Hi @mikefitz406 very useful thank you. I managed over 7 years on the existing EXIDE battery so will order one of those again. Cheers.

Confirming the foregoing advice, the vehicle battery is under the floor, and Hobby often used underseat for the leisure battery location.

Whilst AGM batteries are commonplace for such use, it is only of late that converters fitted chargers with the "appropriate" charging profile for AGM. There has been much debate about the downside of running AGM batteries without a specific profile, but, I've run AGM for a few years against a standard lead-acid profile with no issues. (Most recently Schaudt have updated their chargers to align with AGM, Hobby used to fit CBE electronics (and charger) and I'm not sure about those).

But, back to reality - given you've managed 7 years, replacement like for like (or with a similar decent 95Ah such as the Varta mentioned above) looks entirely sensible. It has the advantage of not requiring any additional ventilation (though if Hobby fitted a vent tube, I'd reuse it).

BTW, the seats are heavy to remove if you need to do so to gain access.

 

[mikefitz406]

If you need to remove the drivers seat take care not to damage the loom and connector for the pre tensioner.
If you need to separate the connector it's advisable to do so with the engine and leisure battery negative disconnected.
To avoid possible damage to the system electronics modules, follow the following process.
Prepare access to the starter battery and any tools needed, but don't disconnect anything yet.
With the ignition key out and all doors and windows closed, wait two minutes for the modules to power down,( 6 minutes If the ignition has been on), then from Inside the vehicle, disconnect the battery negative, firstly on the leisure battery, then the starter battery.
Its now save to work on the electrics and open the doors.
Reconnection of the battery negatives in reverse order again with the doors closed and wait a short time, say a minute before opening doors and activating vehicle electrics.
The process seems somewhat odd but 'door open ' powers up the electronics. If the battery is disconnected whilst the modules are powered up, its possible it won't be a 'clean' disconnect and multiple 'on/off' will occur. Thus its possible the modules will not shut down correctly and get corrupted.
The vehicle handbook actually briefly (and Inadequately) describes this process of disconnecting the starter battery.

Mike

 

[Nurds]

Confirming the foregoing advice, the vehicle battery is under the floor, and Hobby often used underseat for the leisure battery location.

Whilst AGM batteries are commonplace for such use, it is only of late that converters fitted chargers with the "appropriate" charging profile for AGM. There has been much debate about the downside of running AGM batteries without a specific profile, but, I've run AGM for a few years against a standard lead-acid profile with no issues. (Most recently Schaudt have updated their chargers to align with AGM, Hobby used to fit CBE electronics (and charger) and I'm not sure about those).

But, back to reality - given you've managed 7 years, replacement like for like (or with a similar decent 95Ah such as the Varta mentioned above) looks entirely sensible. It has the advantage of not requiring any additional ventilation (though if Hobby fitted a vent tube, I'd reuse it).

BTW, the seats are heavy to remove if you need to do so to gain access.

Great. Thanks for the advice and help @HughJampton. I have a professional coming to fit the battery so hopefully all well. I’ll report back

 

[theoneandonly]

Great. Thanks for the advice and help @HughJampton. I have a professional coming to fit the battery so hopefully all well. I’ll report back

Given all the advise received, you may know more about Ducato foibles than the professoinal.

 

[Nurds]

Given all the advise received, you may know more about Ducato foibles than the professoinal.

Indeed. There are a lot of Ducato foibles!!