Technical Help Please

[Smudge 123]

Hi everyone,

Been a very long time on this group. Some may remember my late mum had a bright orange Fiat punto and you lovely lot helped me and my late mum. Then sadly she passed away in 2017 and I had to part with mum's punto but I got a Fiat 500 in baby blue and done some decals in memory of her. Never missed a beat that car. Now in 2023 I changed to a Fiat 500x due to circumstances. Oh boy and please see below. I'm losing the will with this car. I don't want to because I know my late mum would've chose this car.

I'm hoping someone may have come across this before on a Fiat 500X 1.0 FireFly.

My car is a 2020 Fiat 500X Sport with around 36,000 miles.

For some time I have been experiencing an intermittent issue which usually occurs during cold start or during the transition from fast idle down to normal idle. On a few occasions the engine has chugged, run roughly or appeared to misfire briefly, before then clearing and driving normally.

The fault is very intermittent and the car can then complete long motorway journeys without any issues at all.

The main fault code recorded is P1471. I have also had moving misfire faults recorded on different cylinders at different times rather than one specific cylinder repeatedly failing.

The vehicle has been inspected by a Fiat dealer (Stoneacre) and I have raised the possibility of software updates and Stellantis technical bulletins relating to P1471. I have been told the vehicle was checked, however the fault remains unresolved.

More recently I discovered evidence that the same P1471 code appears to have been recorded during a warranty visit in February 2024, meaning the same code has now reappeared over a year later. I booked it in with stoneacre as closest to me very begrudgingly and 2 days after booking the eml light disappeared on its own.

Things I am wondering about include:

- FireFly software/calibration issues
- Upstream lambda sensor
- EVAP purge system
- Wiring or sensor faults
- Battery/voltage related issues
- Anything else common on the 1.0 FireFly engine

Has anyone experienced recurring P1471 faults, rough idle during idle transition, or intermittent misfires on a 1.0 FireFly and eventually found the cause? Oh my reversing camera won't work. It had brief flick of life the other day and then not working. Apply the code u145 I think but no communication. I've also got a wobbly drivers seat which is something to do with bloster/seat sprocket I think. I mean this car may have been a Friday night job. I've not owned the car 3 years yet. Stoneacre nor Fiat will help me. It was £15,000 car sorry for long post. I'm also in Wrexham but willing to travel.

Any advice or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Ralf S.]

Random and moving misfires has been linked to Multi-Air system issues on the 1.4... and they produce P1471 errors there too,

I've not heard of any problems on the Firefly (I also have a 1.0ltr) but it could be a thing.

See whether Stoneacre can focus on that. There may be a MA test or diagnostic they can run via the OBDC port or they might be able to check for any software updates.

The battery would not cause those symptoms and I'm not sure the wiring or sensors are an issue. The 1.4 owners swap plugs, coils and whatever else.. but the problem is usually always the MA unit.

I don't think the doodah has a filter to remove/clean (even as a non-service action) but it may be worth asking Stoneacre if there is one.

Also, check the oil is clean, plentiful and the right type. Some Firefly are specc'ed for 0W20 but that seems to be an economy measure for a particular batch or year. Mine has 0W30 and touch wood, has been drama free.


Ralf S.

 

[Smudge 123]

I have given stoneacre everything to look at a list but if they did not look. They won't give me the paperwork for what they checked in 24 and now and it's turned in to animosity because it went back under warranty for the same fault. They didn't change the sparks and did the cheapest option in 24. Now stoneacre want ridiculous amount just carry on with further investigation of this code. There has been a service bulletin from steliantis that the ecu is sensitive to the transition from fast idle but again stoneacre refuse to listen. They also damaged my car in their care. Fiat customer care have stated this is the same code from 24 but refuse to help in anyway. I've emailed another garage in Chester and they said the same thing. It's an ecu thing. So I'm confused. The car has ended up having 2 oil changes with new oil filters since November 25 with the newest being at 35k in March 26. The car had 0w 20 but hand book says 0w 30 and the number matches Fiat specifications.

 

[s130]

Sounds like you need to get an appointment with the Fiat Zone Manager for your area. You should be able to do this via Stoneacre or Fiat Customer Care.

 

[Smudge 123]

I spoke to Fiat customer care in Slough I believe and they refuse to budge and sided with stoneacre after speaking to them leaving me very frustrated knowing they acknowledge the fault in 2024 under wanranty. Fiat won't contribute or help in anyway because I had the car for nearly 3 years in September and mileage covered. I bought it with around 18k and now got 36k.

 

[Smudge 123]

This was my last reply to Fiat

Subject: Re: Case 03799411 – Ongoing Concerns Regarding Recurring Fault History

Dear Customer Care,

Thank you for your recent response acknowledging the recurrence of the fault and the history I have outlined.

However, I remain concerned that despite the recurring P1471 fault history, previous warranty involvement, and more recent dealership investigation, I am still left without a confirmed diagnosis, repair plan, or supporting diagnostic documentation.

I have since located evidence indicating that the same P1471 fault code was present during a February 2024 warranty visit to Stoneacre. Despite requesting information, I have not yet received diagnostic records relating to either the 2024 visit or the recent dealership investigation.

I have also discussed the situation with another authorised dealership and was advised that, given the vehicle's age, mileage and recurring history, it is understandable that I would be concerned about being left with an unresolved fault and no clear direction regarding repair.

My concern is no longer simply the presence of a fault code. It is the continuing lack of confidence in the reliability of a vehicle approaching six years old with approximately 36,000 miles, particularly where the same code appears to have reoccurred after previous warranty involvement.

I would therefore be grateful if Fiat could reconsider whether any additional technical review, support, or assistance can be provided in light of the recurring history and ongoing lack of resolution.

 

[s130]

Well that is good starting letter. It puts the ball firmly back in Fiat's court and in writing.

Digging around I found this:

https://autoricambitritella.it/en/b...ndri-multiair-codici-errore-p1471-p1067-p0302

 

[Smudge 123]

I've been given this before but again Fiat and stoneacre are ignoring me. Many emails sent to Fiat after they sided with stoneacre and no nothing. It's very frustrating

 

[s130]

Request a meeting with the Fiat zone manager for your area.

Don't be put off if you are told they don't exist. They do!

Example

Benjamin Rowlands - Zone Manager | Fiat & Abarth | Jeep ...​

See https://uk.linkedin.com/in/benrowlands2000

Ben above probably does not cover North Wales but somebody at Stellantis will

 

[Smudge 123]

I've heard nothing so may have to ring Fiat customer care and Stoneacre head office next week. But I'm not sure who speak to anymore. I'm sure it's because I'm woman

 

[Ralf S.]

Digging around I found this:

https://autoricambitritella.it/en/b...ndri-multiair-codici-errore-p1471-p1067-p0302

This post is triggering my METS - Modern Engines Trauma Syndrome..

Mine has had an oil change every 9000 miles (coincidentally aligns with the 1 year service interval) but now that it's out of warranty I've been thinking of switching to an mid-term oil change (4,500).

I've hesitated though, since 4,500 mile-old oil is practically new and I remember my old 155 v6 used to run fine on 12,000 mile changes on what would now be seen as way inferior quality oil.

I might give the beast a "half-time oranges" treatment of that Liqui Moly Hydraulic Valve Lifter Engine Oil Additive that is referenced in the "what can help?" section instead. Does anyone have any opinions?


Ralf S.

 

[Ralf S.]

I've been given this before but again Fiat and stoneacre are ignoring me. Many emails sent to Fiat after they sided with stoneacre and no nothing. It's very frustrating

The article in post #7 seems to suggest that you can use either additives or cleaners; to better protect or unstick a solenoid respectively.

If it was me with a sticking solenoid, I would try one of the cleaners at the next oil change. You typically tip them into a hot engine and then drive around gently, so their solvents can get into all the nooks and crannies... then you drain and replace the oil and the filter. It's relatively cheap and risk free.

Otherwise, how much is a new solenoid? Sometimes they're not so shocking and quite easy to fit (stop laughing, you at the back...). Might be the least PITA.


Ralf S.

 

[Smudge 123]

Additives have been put in but through adding to the fuel. I'm no where near confident to get the additive to poor in the engine and the car had an oil change in March as car said change oil at 35k. I'm now have 36k and something miles but the garage forgot to change my mileage interval and just turned the light off so my car is now saying service in 12 days. Funny enough the other day the car decided to say "stop start unavailable" after fast idle came off. I now have to hold my breath every time I turn this car on not good when I relay on it to get about because of my health. Maybe taking it on a long drive may help the stop start.

 

[Smudge 123]

I now wondering if my car is running rich. Seems to be using quite a bit fuel too for 1ltr

 

[The Panda Nut]

Stellantis super economy strkes again. The TA must be the worst sub 1 litre fuel consumption of any car ever made lol. If you drive like a very careful granny it may be ok but otherwisw you might better in a a V8 3 litre +! You seem to be at the same party. At the age and miles of the op's car a cleaner might just be a sound idea. Well worth a try. Never trust a Fiat dealer to use the right oil and it qould be worth checking the oil reset is done when tge oil is changed. If the car runs then a bit of a run in say 4th gear may also do no harm.

 

[Smudge 123]

Stellantis super economy strkes again. The TA must be the worst sub 1 litre fuel consumption of any car ever made lol. If you drive like a very careful granny it may be ok but otherwisw you might better in a a V8 3 litre +! You seem to be at the same party. At the age and miles of the op's car a cleaner might just be a sound idea. Well worth a try. Never trust a Fiat dealer to use the right oil and it qould be worth checking the oil reset is done when tge oil is changed. If the car runs then a bit of a run in say 4th gear may also do no harm.

It used be quite good from what I remember on fuel. What type of cleaner could I try? The car has had additives through fuel. I don't trust most garages now. I've recently had bad experiences where I live. I'm trying to find a garage in Wrexham I can trust again.

 

[s130]

It used be quite good from what I remember on fuel. What type of cleaner could I try? The car has had additives through fuel. I don't trust most garages now. I've recently had bad experiences where I live. I'm trying to find a garage in Wrexham I can trust again.

I can recommend Terry Jones of Minera Garage, Unit 30, Five Crosses Industrial Estate, LL11 3RD. Tel:01978-720226.

Terry is a small independent, VAT registered garage. Usually booking 2 weeks ahead. I visit him quite often to chat, watch him work. He has done some work on my 500X (full brake and clutch fluid change) and I have done some software work for him.

A possible problem for you is that I don't think he has a loan car and can't do MOTs. He used to get MOTs done by another local place but they have ceased doing MOTs so asks customers to arrange their own MOTs.

If you do use him then tell him that Nick referred you.

The other place I could recommend is Dean of Small Car Services in Southampton. Long way away but that said extremely competent ex. Fiat Master Technician and all the offical Fiat diagnostic kit and connection to Fiat's online systems. He has at least a couple of customers who drive down from Midlands / Liverpool / Chester area and use his loan car to go shopping of visit Marwell Zoo. I've known Dean for many years and trust him without any reservations.

If you use Dean (unlikely) the also tell him Nick B referred you. Same for anyone else who uses Dean @ SMS.

 

[Ralf S.]

Additives have been put in but through adding to the fuel. I'm no where near confident to get the additive to poor in the engine and the car had an oil change in March as car said change oil at 35k. I'm now have 36k and something miles but the garage forgot to change my mileage interval and just turned the light off so my car is now saying service in 12 days. Funny enough the other day the car decided to say "stop start unavailable" after fast idle came off. I now have to hold my breath every time I turn this car on not good when I relay on it to get about because of my health. Maybe taking it on a long drive may help the stop start.

If the problem is a sticky actuator, then fuel additives are a red herring. The oil additive I mention above (or a cleaner/pre-flush type) would go into the engine oil, either as a pour it in and leave it forever (for an anti-stick additive) or put it in, let it do it's work for 30 minutes and then drain the oil and replace it (for a cleaner/pre-flush) respectively.

If your fuel economy has tanked that could be down to the Multi-Air system too.

You can try a fuel system cleaner if you think you have gum or varnish in the system but 36k is a baby still and the fuel system will be spotless. The best known is "Cataclean Petrol– Complete Fuel & Exhaust cleaner" (about £18 from Halfords). You run the tank down to around 1/4 and then add the whole bottle... then drive about as normal until you have to fill up again.

But you've tried fuel additives and they haven't fixed it... you need to look at the solenoid in the MA unit. If your oil change was fairly recent and it used 0W20 then that's as good as it's going to get; there's no point changing the oil again. I would stick some Liqui Moly Hydraulic Valve Lifter Engine Oil Additive into the oil and see whether that has any effect.

If it makes even a slight difference then it will prove that the issue is in the valve gear, so it would be a cheap diagnosis. Otherwise someone's going to have to hook up the car to Fiat diagnostic equipment and check the Multi-Air is all working correctly.

Ignore the Stop/Start disabled... it gets disabled whenever the car thinks something dodgy is happening.. so it doesn't turn the engine off and inadvertently maroon you. If the issue gets fixed, the S/S will come back all by itself.


Ralf S.

 

[The Panda Nut]

It used be quite good from what I remember on fuel. What type of cleaner could I try? The car has had additives through fuel. I don't trust most garages now. I've recently had bad experiences where I live. I'm trying to find a garage in Wrexham I can trust again.

Wynns (petrol) is the one I default to. It been in business for many many years and doesnt cause problems, STP and Redex are simialr.
There are now probably more specific ones. See wheeler dealers with the XK8 JAg and you can see what Ed China made of the one he used. It appears impressive.

The key is regular use to stop build up. Yopu may need to use it cor a few months to get top results

 

[Smudge 123]

It's a strange one. Stoneacre told me (no paperwork) and still no contact that the MultiAir unit is fine. The car had 0w 20 and then Fiat said 0w 30 which is what's in their now as it has the Fiat specification number. Monday went to Preston and held my breath. Amazingly the car did not skip a beat but I think fuel usage is not what it should be. But the reserve camera has started working again! So I'm like is the reverse camera battery and obviously the engine is something else. I've got so much on with my health I can't deal with it myself as it's adding to my health if you know what I mean. I will look up the oil additive, thank you