Technical Help. Engine died.

[AnthonyH]

I drove the car for the first time this morning.

This was me starting the journey...

This was me each time i stopped the car....

This was me when i got back home.....

Now I have a battery tester, i checked the battery in my EVO, which is 44% health. They're really handy gadgets.

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks for posting result as I really did not expect it to be the key .....glad you got a fix.
Best
J

 

[AnthonyH]

I opened the key up to see if there was any damage that I could repair, but there's nothing. So I changed the battery one last time...and nada. I'll keep the old key just in case I need it later.

I guess that's a wrap for this thread. I already miss the remote

 

[PuntoHowTo]

This is the chip for the ignition, it has nothing to do with the remote, does the remote no longer work ?

 

[AnthonyH]

This is the chip for the ignition, it has nothing to do with the remote, does the remote no longer work ?

The remote has also failed now, so it won't lock the doors anymore. I realise having two separate systems fail (remote locking and immobilizer) means something, but I'm not sure what.

I looked where you are pointing but it looked like just a gap, it had me a bit bemused, so there's something in there?

Logically i'd think there was a poor connection problem, or power problem, but the innards looked more or less new. I prodded and pushed the chips and pins, checked the traces were good. Hmmm.

Edit: I've just looked at the area you highlighted and there isn't anything there except plastic. Based upon a youtube video i saw some keys have a chip in there, but i don't think mine does, i'm sure i didn't lose it, so those functions must have been encoded onto a chip?

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The remote has also failed now, so it won't lock the doors anymore. I realise having two separate systems fail (remote locking and immobilizer) means something, but I'm not sure what.

I looked where you are pointing but it looked like just a gap, it had me a bit bemused, so there's something in there?

Logically i'd think there was a poor connection problem, or power problem, but the innards looked more or less new. I prodded and pushed the chips and pins, checked the traces were good. Hmmm.

Edit: I've just looked at the area you highlighted and there isn't anything there except plastic. Based upon a youtube video i saw some keys have a chip in there, but i don't think mine does, i'm sure i didn't lose it, so those functions must have been encoded onto a chip?

Usually there is a little glass capsule that contains the chip,
Looking at your remote you have an inductor of some sort on that end of the circuit board so maybe it is part of the chip on the board ? I must admit this is not an area I have any in depth knowledge, and I really stopped dealing with this sort of stuff in about 2005 so things very well could be different after that point

 

[AnthonyH]

The inductor looks to be working as an aerial for both the remote locking and the immobiliser and was a forerunner to the glass capsule seen elsewhere. I'm not really sure though.

I'll try to get 3V across the circuit board tomorrow and test to see if it'll work independently of the key fob, this will rule out a power connection problem.

 

[AnthonyH]

I put 3V on the board and tried to get it working, but no, the key appears more dead than ever.

I suppose I could buy a second hand GP key that has had the transponder wiped, buy a multiecuscan registration and program the key, then put my old blade in there. This appears possible at least?

A secondhand key is about £25, the multiecuscan registration about £50. So the costs if everything goes well are around half that to buy a new remote key. The thing is everything isn't likely to go well lol.

 

[Greasytrucker]

I put 3V on the board and tried to get it working, but no, the key appears more dead than ever.

I suppose I could buy a second hand GP key that has had the transponder wiped, buy a multiecuscan registration and program the key, then put my old blade in there. This appears possible at least?

A secondhand key is about £25, the multiecuscan registration about £50. So the costs if everything goes well are around half that to buy a new remote key. The thing is everything isn't likely to go well lol.

Have you not got any forum members nearby with a registered copy that could programme the key for you if you did the rest?

 

[AnthonyH]

Have you not got any forum members nearby with a registered copy that could programme the key for you if you did the rest?

Probably, but I haven't looked. I do want a new remote key. I should take the plunge and buy a registered copy of MES myself really, i'm good with computers. I have general reticence in case something goes drastically wrong, or I have to buy multiple keys off ebay before i find one that fits my current blade. Because of the last week, with regard to keys, I now have a "if it aint broke don't fix it" sort of attitude. I also have issues with my EVO, although its driving OK, which are more pressing.

I sold my third/sorn scrap Grande Punto car a few days ago for £150. I'd taken everything I wanted off it. But that's the same price as a new remote key?! Either the price of a new key is high or the price of an old car is cheap...

 

[AnthonyH]

The car has been fine for a couple of months.... but my wife took the car to work this morning about 10 miles away. She got there ok but when asked to move the car found it not starting!!

Gah!!

I did a video call and could see for myself that the dashboard lights come on ok. The immobilizer light goes off. The key turns, but there's no cranking.

The car has a relatively new battery that had 97% health. It has 3 earth wires. It had a new starter motor.

I'm hoping she can bump start it to get it home, without me having to go there or getting the RAC out. Maybe the car's just being temperamental because of the cold?

I'll update later.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The car has been fine for a couple of months.... but my wife took the car to work this morning about 10 miles away. She got there ok but when asked to move the car found it not starting!!

Gah!!

I did a video call and could see for myself that the dashboard lights come on ok. The immobilizer light goes off. The key turns, but there's no cranking.

The car has a relatively new battery that had 97% health. It has 3 earth wires. It had a new starter motor.

I'm hoping she can bump start it to get it home, without me having to go there or getting the RAC out. Maybe the car's just being temperamental because of the cold?

I'll update later.

Engine earth strap ?

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm hoping it's something like that. But in the past when I had that problem it would at least try to turn over.

Ironically I've been helping another user with their starting problem in the GP forum. Last thing I said was check the relay. Might be doing this myself tomorrow

 

[GrandePunto PL]

If you bother to type PCF7946+PDF into Google, you'll get datasheet for the chip. It's a 2 in 1 chip (remote + immo)...

 

[Greasytrucker]

I'm hoping it's something like that. But in the past when I had that problem it would at least try to turn over.

Ironically I've been helping another user with their starting problem in the GP forum. Last thing I said was check the relay. Might be doing this myself tomorrow

Sounds to me if the immobiliser is going out and you know battery is OK then it could be a new problem related to the starter or something, they do just die sometimes, could even just be sticking. If it bump starts and the appears to start normally again after then you’ve got a sticking starter motor

 

[PuntoHowTo]

If you bother to type PCF7946+PDF into Google, you'll get datasheet for the chip. It's a 2 in 1 chip (remote + immo)...

View attachment 456376

“If you bother”…. But we didn’t, so what are ya gonna do

I suppose you could always poke at it with an oscilloscope. Or is that where you’ve been for the last 6 weeks since that post was made.

 

[AnthonyH]

The car started when she tried it not long ago, I'm not sure if it'll start when she comes home later, hopefully so, I've not long got home and don't want to be going out again.

During our video call I had her position the phone so I could see the dashboard and her turning the key at the same time, and it really didn't crank - there's no human error on her part.

It rained all day yesterday and it was foggy this morning, i'm wonder if she drove through a big puddle, or condensation got at the starter to make it stick? I've not knowingly had a sticking starter motor before, how common is that?

I'll check the car tomorrow and see if I can detect a problem, and have to drive it myself for a while.

 

[Greasytrucker]

The car started when she tried it not long ago, I'm not sure if it'll start when she comes home later, hopefully so, I've not long got home and don't want to be going out again.

During our video call I had her position the phone so I could see the dashboard and her turning the key at the same time, and it really didn't crank - there's no human error on her part.

It rained all day yesterday and it was foggy this morning, i'm wonder if she drove through a big puddle, or condensation got at the starter to make it stick? I've not knowingly had a sticking starter motor before, how common is that?

I'll check the car tomorrow and see if I can detect a problem, and have to drive it myself for a while.

They don’t normally stick due to damp or getting wet, normally just down to age. You normally get a bit of a clunk or click but that’s it, and can be intermittent. Only really solved by changing it. If it’s in reach often tapping it with something (not too hard though) with someone else holding the key in the start position is enough to make it temporarily work again. Obviously if this method is tried ENSURE THE CAR IS NOT IN GEAR AT THE TIME! Not saying that’s your problem though, just an idea

 

[AnthonyH]

They don’t normally stick due to damp or getting wet, normally just down to age. You normally get a bit of a clunk or click but that’s it, and can be intermittent. Only really solved by changing it. If it’s in reach often tapping it with something (not too hard though) with someone else holding the key in the start position is enough to make it temporarily work again. Obviously if this method is tried ENSURE THE CAR IS NOT IN GEAR AT THE TIME! Not saying that’s your problem though, just an idea

I've heard the one about hitting the starter motor with a hammer! The thought does amuse me, so too hitting any number of components to make them work again...Hitting the windows with a hammer to make them go up and down again. Hitting the sump to sump to stop it leaking etc. lol Its the perfect repost to a car that seems to break down as much as it drives lol

 

[AnthonyH]

She got home ok. She said she "jiggled the battery" and it then started. The terminals are rammed on, but the battery has a bit of leeway to move, but not much. I'll look tomorrow.