Technical Help!! cooling fan
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Technical Help!! cooling fan
As you have a weak point of rad fan controller located next to the radiator (not the most sensible place to put it) then it's most often a problem there at the controller with circuit board or soldering deteriorating
CAUTION
rad fan can start up at any time with ign on so watch fingers!
it's saying a circuit failure so you need circuit diagram and multimeter and start checking
first step I'd do is check fuses and see if you have power and earth at rad fan controller
CAUTION
rad fan can start up at any time with ign on so watch fingers!
it's saying a circuit failure so you need circuit diagram and multimeter and start checking
first step I'd do is check fuses and see if you have power and earth at rad fan controller
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Is that the bit near the top of the rad with two wires going into it Argo. Going to have to get it to a dealer to have the proxy alinement done at some point.
More worrying now is i have no dash, No dials, fuel & temp gauge all stuck and only 2 warning lights in the speedo are lighting up.
It doesnt even do a check so am going to get another battery tomorrow as this one is three years old and doesnt seem to be holding a charge so hopefully it will cure the above.
Oh and i now have working cruise control so what ever went wrong it was on the old engine as the brake light fault error has gone too.
Thanks Argonought for your input.
More worrying now is i have no dash, No dials, fuel & temp gauge all stuck and only 2 warning lights in the speedo are lighting up.
It doesnt even do a check so am going to get another battery tomorrow as this one is three years old and doesnt seem to be holding a charge so hopefully it will cure the above.
Oh and i now have working cruise control so what ever went wrong it was on the old engine as the brake light fault error has gone too.
Thanks Argonought for your input.
More worrying now is i have no dash, No dials, fuel & temp gauge all stuck and only 2 warning lights in the speedo are lighting up.
Disconnect the battery, charge it up and reconnect and try it is the first step then check connections and charging voltages
3 years isn't old for modern batteries and if something is discharging it or it isn't being charged properly then you'd have the same fault after and many pounds lighter as well as starving kids, house reposession etc. People do it all the time,
"Hey battery is flat, let's get a new battery, ah that's better, but wait!..... oh no! the same again"
The rad fan ecu is right up front next to the radiator and isn't difficult to replace if it does need replacing but you need some decent voltage first to check it.
If you need to drive and get stuck in traffic then putting your car heater on full and full blower fan will do the same job as the rad fan
Disconnect the battery, charge it up and reconnect and try it is the first step then check connections and charging voltages
3 years isn't old for modern batteries and if something is discharging it or it isn't being charged properly then you'd have the same fault after and many pounds lighter as well as starving kids, house reposession etc. People do it all the time,
"Hey battery is flat, let's get a new battery, ah that's better, but wait!..... oh no! the same again"
The rad fan ecu is right up front next to the radiator and isn't difficult to replace if it does need replacing but you need some decent voltage first to check it.
If you need to drive and get stuck in traffic then putting your car heater on full and full blower fan will do the same job as the rad fan
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Thanks Deckchair, and sorry for calling you argonought in my 3rd post i dont quite know where i got argos name from.
I have just driven to exeter and back and the dash still hasnt come back, it was working yesterday before the crankshaft senser went. So got that fitted and still nothing so am going to disconnect the battery for a hour or so and take the hire van back and reconnect the battery to see what happens.
There are also no errors what so ever stored for anything other than the rad fan 1&2 and the air-con pressure switch which i now have.
Im guessing as you say the battery is still ok as it started the car fine this morning and everytime i have started it since, all lights work etc so am hoping a reset might work.
Thanks.
I have just driven to exeter and back and the dash still hasnt come back, it was working yesterday before the crankshaft senser went. So got that fitted and still nothing so am going to disconnect the battery for a hour or so and take the hire van back and reconnect the battery to see what happens.
There are also no errors what so ever stored for anything other than the rad fan 1&2 and the air-con pressure switch which i now have.
Im guessing as you say the battery is still ok as it started the car fine this morning and everytime i have started it since, all lights work etc so am hoping a reset might work.
Thanks.
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Argos are everywhere these days
As you say, battery must be fine so I'd check fuses F37 and F53 which are power supply to dash gauges connector A pins 1 and 2.
Same connector A Pin 7 there is earth going to earth point C15
After that I'd look for some bad connections at those connectors or maybe, if you know what you're doing, check for bad soldering joints by simply redoing them on the dash circuit board
As you say, battery must be fine so I'd check fuses F37 and F53 which are power supply to dash gauges connector A pins 1 and 2.
Same connector A Pin 7 there is earth going to earth point C15
After that I'd look for some bad connections at those connectors or maybe, if you know what you're doing, check for bad soldering joints by simply redoing them on the dash circuit board
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Well turns out i think to be a dodgy fuse connection/and or a reset as i cleaned both of those fuses and disconnected the battery for at least 1hour and i open the door and hey presto there was the clock.
And so turned the key to be greeted by all the lights and checking, started her up and all is well.
Just need to sort the cooling fan now and get another can of air-con gas and the old girl will be fit for another 130,000 miles!!
And so turned the key to be greeted by all the lights and checking, started her up and all is well.
Just need to sort the cooling fan now and get another can of air-con gas and the old girl will be fit for another 130,000 miles!!
Lovely! Nice, cheap and easy fix
For the cooling fan ecu then the circuit board solder joints tend to deteriorate with age, heat and damp. Some people have managed to repair the board or it's a new/used unit replacement. They're quite pricy new
I put a guide on how to check your engine temp sensor in the Stilo Guides for how to make a cheap and simple test gear for testing cooling fan operation without taking the engine to dangerous temperatures which you might want to make use of if you're getting an unknown second hand fan ecu
What's up with the linear pressure switch? just showing low pressure?
For the cooling fan ecu then the circuit board solder joints tend to deteriorate with age, heat and damp. Some people have managed to repair the board or it's a new/used unit replacement. They're quite pricy new
I put a guide on how to check your engine temp sensor in the Stilo Guides for how to make a cheap and simple test gear for testing cooling fan operation without taking the engine to dangerous temperatures which you might want to make use of if you're getting an unknown second hand fan ecu
What's up with the linear pressure switch? just showing low pressure?
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The linear pressure switch??? Do you mean the air con pressure switch as have replaced that yesterday and got 15% off as when i went do to exeter to get that and the crankshaft senser they gave me a oil pressure switch.
And shock horror both items were on the shelf.
Well done Vospers.
And shock horror both items were on the shelf.
Well done Vospers.
What bit is the ecu please and where is it located as i have found the resister but not the ecu.
If anybody has any idea the exact place of the cooling fan ecu it would be greatly appreciated.
I am begining to think maybe the ecu is not on the car as there is a plug with no home on the wiring loom that goes to the airbag senser on the slam panel behind the bonnet catch.
Any ideas!!!!
Thanks.
If anybody has any idea the exact place of the cooling fan ecu it would be greatly appreciated.
I am begining to think maybe the ecu is not on the car as there is a plug with no home on the wiring loom that goes to the airbag senser on the slam panel behind the bonnet catch.
Any ideas!!!!
Thanks.
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So i assume you have to take the fan cowling off to get to the ecu then. I wonder if its been plugged back in as it would be easy to miss a plug as to get both fan 1&2 errors i guess is unusual????.
While i think about it any ideas as to fiat garages or an independant around the cambridge area????
While i think about it any ideas as to fiat garages or an independant around the cambridge area????
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I think you can see, and unscrew it from the back of the cowling. I've seen the panel there on my JTD but never needed to remove it to see what's in there.
Check your fuses first though
Two fuses
F6 50A this will be the main power fuse for the rad fan
and
F16 7.5A this will be for the rad fan ecu
Note F6 is permanently live which is why your rad fan can still be turned on after you turn off ignition
And the rad fan ecu also needs an earth which goes to earth C1A (that's your main battery earth) so it's worth checking that out too as that would give you warnings of problems on fan circuits 1 and 2
Two fuses
F6 50A this will be the main power fuse for the rad fan
and
F16 7.5A this will be for the rad fan ecu
Note F6 is permanently live which is why your rad fan can still be turned on after you turn off ignition
And the rad fan ecu also needs an earth which goes to earth C1A (that's your main battery earth) so it's worth checking that out too as that would give you warnings of problems on fan circuits 1 and 2
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Well guys the mystery deepens, Managed to get a used fan and ecu from a very helpfull breakers called Autospares i think near kettering who have a 52 plate 1.9jtd in, Anyway pulled off this panel on the rad cowling to be greeted by a resister and not a ecu!!! so take it out, remove fan which quite possibly still works and installs the new fan, plugs wires in and attach the ecu in place of the resister.
And so take battery out, take fuse board out and unplug plug only to be greeted by a different wiring set up, mine has the 2 outside pins one red one grey with a black wire going to earth.
Now the new fan out of the 52 plate jtd has one red wire in the central pin and just the black going to the earth but with 2 smaller wires with a plug going to the ecu. So i have a look and find a plug labelled with something akin to going to rad fan controller, Ah Ha i thinks:idea::idea: but uh oh the wires are different colours so plug it in and reasemble car and hoorah i have a fan but only on fast speed and on as soon as i turn the key on.
Dropped the p0480 but still have 0481 so would you kind forum members who know far more than me be able to shed some light on this for me as im stumped now as to what to do.
I will check the wire colours tomorrow that go to the ecu and the wires that go to the plug its plugged into.
So also im guessing fiat changed the wiring setup for the jtd's at some point hence ecu's and the change to resisters????
Sorry if this doesnt make alot of sense been a long day one way and another.
And so take battery out, take fuse board out and unplug plug only to be greeted by a different wiring set up, mine has the 2 outside pins one red one grey with a black wire going to earth.
Now the new fan out of the 52 plate jtd has one red wire in the central pin and just the black going to the earth but with 2 smaller wires with a plug going to the ecu. So i have a look and find a plug labelled with something akin to going to rad fan controller, Ah Ha i thinks:idea::idea: but uh oh the wires are different colours so plug it in and reasemble car and hoorah i have a fan but only on fast speed and on as soon as i turn the key on.
Dropped the p0480 but still have 0481 so would you kind forum members who know far more than me be able to shed some light on this for me as im stumped now as to what to do.
I will check the wire colours tomorrow that go to the ecu and the wires that go to the plug its plugged into.
So also im guessing fiat changed the wiring setup for the jtd's at some point hence ecu's and the change to resisters????
Sorry if this doesnt make alot of sense been a long day one way and another.
Delving into ePER a bit deeper, it appears that some vehicles had an ECU and some the resistors.
The 80, 100 and 115 bhp versions had the ECU and the 120, 140 and 150 bhp had resistors. It's not clear on ePER but there's also a suggestion that some models had both. The wiring and connectors would be different depending on which was fitted.
If you want to PM me you VIN, I may be able to narrow it down which you should have.
The 80, 100 and 115 bhp versions had the ECU and the 120, 140 and 150 bhp had resistors. It's not clear on ePER but there's also a suggestion that some models had both. The wiring and connectors would be different depending on which was fitted.
If you want to PM me you VIN, I may be able to narrow it down which you should have.
There are two types of rad fan controlling systems
Rad fan speed controller ECU
OR
2 rad fan speed controlling relays with resistor
but you won't have ECU AND resistor
With relays and resistor then
relay circuit with no resistor = fast fan speed / with resistor = slow fan speed
It looks like around 2003 JTD’s both 8v and 16v changed over to the more reliable system of relays and resistors
BUT on both systems the air con linear pressure switch also signals to the ECU for “rad fan ON please” in cases of high pressure /temp in the aircon circuit. Now niether of those should be high if you have no gas in there
The two rad fan systems aren't really compatible/interchangeable but a rad fan is a rad fan and that can be used for either
So, could do with some more information
What was happening with rad fan before?
Was it working? Only on slow speed?
Why did you change aircon linear pressure switch? Just the fault code? What fault code did you get?
The relays with resistor is the more reliable operating sytem so I'd be inclined to get that working
Is the old fan working? Put 12v on it
Is the resistor still ok? Should be very low resistance, just a few ohms but not zero or open circuit
Are the fan control relay fuses ok?
Post up some pictures if you can
Here's the circuit diag for the relays and resistor type control. Note the aircon linear pressure switch in the system.
Rad fan speed controller ECU
OR
2 rad fan speed controlling relays with resistor
but you won't have ECU AND resistor
With relays and resistor then
relay circuit with no resistor = fast fan speed / with resistor = slow fan speed
It looks like around 2003 JTD’s both 8v and 16v changed over to the more reliable system of relays and resistors
BUT on both systems the air con linear pressure switch also signals to the ECU for “rad fan ON please” in cases of high pressure /temp in the aircon circuit. Now niether of those should be high if you have no gas in there
The two rad fan systems aren't really compatible/interchangeable but a rad fan is a rad fan and that can be used for either
So, could do with some more information
What was happening with rad fan before?
Was it working? Only on slow speed?
Why did you change aircon linear pressure switch? Just the fault code? What fault code did you get?
The relays with resistor is the more reliable operating sytem so I'd be inclined to get that working
Is the old fan working? Put 12v on it
Is the resistor still ok? Should be very low resistance, just a few ohms but not zero or open circuit
Are the fan control relay fuses ok?
Post up some pictures if you can
Here's the circuit diag for the relays and resistor type control. Note the aircon linear pressure switch in the system.
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Will try to add a few pics later as im on a slow connection, but the wiring is quite different.
That'll help but what's the full story? You have a 2004 car which you've put in a 2003 engine and ECU but originally retained the 2004 rad fan setup which you've now changed for a 2002 type rad fan control. Is that right?
You can obtain a multimeter for around £10 from any diy, electronics or motoring shop. I think you are going to need one for what's coming up next
Each ECU controls the rad fan using different methods you see and different ECU pins.
With the relays and resistor type then the ECU sends an earth to each relay that it wants, ECU M10 connector A pin 14 =slow or connector A pin 30 =fast.
With the rad fan controller unit system then the engine ECU sends a signal down just one wire from connector A pin 20 to the rad fan controller for both rad fan speeds
You can obtain a multimeter for around £10 from any diy, electronics or motoring shop. I think you are going to need one for what's coming up next
Each ECU controls the rad fan using different methods you see and different ECU pins.
With the relays and resistor type then the ECU sends an earth to each relay that it wants, ECU M10 connector A pin 14 =slow or connector A pin 30 =fast.
With the rad fan controller unit system then the engine ECU sends a signal down just one wire from connector A pin 20 to the rad fan controller for both rad fan speeds
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Yes and No, Engine, starter, aircon pump, alt, gearbox, wiring loom, Basiclly everything attached to the engine has gone into mine.
The only things that wasnt, engine ecu, rad and fan, driveshafts, well you get the picture.
Yes mines a 04 and the engine and box etc out of a 52 plate with whats becoming very apparent a different cooling setup and the mechanic that did the job has now chucked out my wiring loom so cant change any bits that might have needed to be.
Now the fan and ecu i bought yesterday has indeed come out of a 53 plate stilo which partly worked. I was just thinking is there any way that the colours of the wiring loom that goes to the fan ecu can be sorted out as im wondering if the wires in the plug might be the wrong way round or something!!!
The plug in the battery box are brown and yellow that the fan ecu plugs into.
But the wires going to the ecu from the plug are different ie green and red!!!!
So what i plan on doing is getting the resistor tomorrow and seeing if that solves the problem as im guessing thats also why the air con isnt working as well. If it doesnt work then i will try putting the ecu back in but think about swaping the green and red wires that go to the ecu and see if that makes any difference unless i get told not too and i will also buy a multi meter to try and get my head around all these diagrams and wires.
The only things that wasnt, engine ecu, rad and fan, driveshafts, well you get the picture.
Yes mines a 04 and the engine and box etc out of a 52 plate with whats becoming very apparent a different cooling setup and the mechanic that did the job has now chucked out my wiring loom so cant change any bits that might have needed to be.
Now the fan and ecu i bought yesterday has indeed come out of a 53 plate stilo which partly worked. I was just thinking is there any way that the colours of the wiring loom that goes to the fan ecu can be sorted out as im wondering if the wires in the plug might be the wrong way round or something!!!
The plug in the battery box are brown and yellow that the fan ecu plugs into.
But the wires going to the ecu from the plug are different ie green and red!!!!
So what i plan on doing is getting the resistor tomorrow and seeing if that solves the problem as im guessing thats also why the air con isnt working as well. If it doesnt work then i will try putting the ecu back in but think about swaping the green and red wires that go to the ecu and see if that makes any difference unless i get told not too and i will also buy a multi meter to try and get my head around all these diagrams and wires.
