General Handbrake holding ability on steep gradient

[44sunsets]

I was hoping people could shed some light on this. My 500C TwinAir Lounge cannot sit stationary on a steep gradient when the handbrake is applied; the car rolls.

I raised this issue with the dealership service centre, they checked and adjusted the handbrake and said it's fine. I tested the car on some steep hills again and it's exactly the same as before, it rolls after I apply the handbrake (parking brake). And yes, I do apply the handbrake firmly and pull it up as far as it can go

Now, the question is of course how steep is too steep? Apparently the official regulations only require the handbrake to hold the car at rather shallow gradients.

But I'm interested in the real world -- there are some streets here in Sydney with fairly steep gradients. Here's one example, on Google Street View:
https://www.google.com.au/maps/prev...23!4f13.1!4m2!3d-33.899426!4d151.026493&fid=5

I tried both sides of the road, facing uphill and downhill, and both times the car simply rolled after applying the handbrake. As soon as I let go of the brake pedal, the car groans and pitches and then rolls. Should the 500 be able to stay stationary on this kind of gradient? I noticed there was one car parked on probably the steepest part of the street, so I know it's definitely possible for some cars.

If it's a fault with my handbrake, what can I ask the mechanic to check/adjust -- seeing as the dealership already "adjusted" the handbrake previously, with no improvement?

Note that there's no problem with my regular brakes -- the car stays still on a steep hill when I put my foot on the brake pedal, it's only the handbrake that I'm concerned about.

I recently got stuck in a traffic jam on the spiralling down ramp of a shopping centre car park entry when the boom gate machine broke down and refused to let any cars in -- luckily my handbrake held successfully there, so the gradient must not have been quite as steep!

I have no problems with the handbrake on shallow gradients, it works perfectly there.

Any thoughts/experiences would be very much appreciated
I believe my TwinAir Lounge has front disc brakes and rear drum brakes. Would the 500S with front & rear disc brakes be able to hold better when it is parked on a gradient?

 

[Mercky]

either it needs adjusting or you're not pulling it up hard enough, the 500 is not a heavy car.

 

[44sunsets]

Strike two against my dealership service centre, grrrr. I wonder what I have to do to get them to actually adjust the handbrake properly? :bang:

 

[UFI]

I tested the car on some steep hills again and it's exactly the same as before, it rolls after I apply the handbrake (parking brake). And yes, I do apply the handbrake firmly and pull it up as far as it can go

Now, the question is of course how steep is too steep?

I noticed there was one car parked on probably the steepest part of the street, so I know it's definitely possible for some cars.

If it's a fault with my handbrake, what can I ask the mechanic to check/adjust -- seeing as the dealership already "adjusted" the handbrake previously, with no improvement?

Would the 500S with front & rear disc brakes be able to hold better when it is parked on a gradient?

1. If the handbrake goes "as far as it can go" it sounds like it's out of adjustment. If you feel a solid stop at the top of it's travel, that's not right. It should always feel stretchy (you're actually tensioning a cable in effect).

2.UFI has held on a 40% hill start.

3. Some cars are manual and 1st gear alone is enough to hold on a steep hill.

4. There are usually four nuts/ bolts to adjust the handbrake mech (two on the level, two on the cable). It's a simple enough thing to DIY. You just need to add some tension to the cable - don't go too far or the brakes can drag though.

5. Drum brakes are known to hold better than discs. Many disc brake cars have a drum brake for the parking brake.

 

[44sunsets]

1. If the handbrake goes "as far as it can go" it sounds like it's out of adjustment. If you feel a solid stop at the top of it's travel, that's not right. It should always feel stretchy (you're actually tensioning a cable in effect).

It definitely feels stretchy, like any other handbrake, so nothing odd there.

Thanks for the tips, will either give it a go myself or get a local indie mechanic to adjust it! Still gobsmacked at how bad the dealership service centre is...

 

[Bigpowerjam]

I had exactly the same problem with mine, then once it was tightened the handbrake was on permanently! I had to have it adjusted off and then I found out that I had 90% worn pads -.-

 

[jrkitching]

I had exactly the same problem with mine, then once it was tightened the handbrake was on permanently! I had to have it adjusted off and then I found out that I had 90% worn pads -.-

Yes, if the handbrake won't hold the car you need to strip down the rear brakes & find out why - indiscriminately tightening the cable will just make matters worse.

It's essential that there is the correct amount of slack in the cable when the handbrake is off, otherwise the self adjusting mechanism won't work properly.

You won't get 60mpg if the brakes are binding, either. I pull the hubs off mine & check them at least once a year.

 

[44sunsets]

I had exactly the same problem with mine, then once it was tightened the handbrake was on permanently! I had to have it adjusted off and then I found out that I had 90% worn pads -.-

I bought my car new with 25km on the odometer so I hope it's not worn pads! Will get them checked out nonetheless.

 

[MN500]

Worn pads being the result of the overly tightened handbrake not the cause.

 

[44sunsets]

I had exactly the same problem with mine, then once it was tightened the handbrake was on permanently! I had to have it adjusted off and then I found out that I had 90% worn pads -.-

I think I misunderstood your reply the first time around (thanks to MN500 for picking up on that) -- did you end up being able to park stationary on steep hills with the handbrake applied, or was that never sorted in the end?

 

[portland_bill]

I'm assuming you've got drum rear brakes. Here's a tip that works with all drum braked cars, especially useful with older small Fiats and Corsa C.

Stop normally. Do not apply handbrake.
After car is completely stopped, push brake pedal hard. This squeezes the rear brake shoes hard against the drum. (When moving, pressure is restricted, but not after stopped.)
While holding footbrake hard, apply handbrake.
Release footbrake gently and apply relieved smile.

This uses the footbrake to apply the shoes against the drum, the handbrake only has to hold them there, not apply them. If it still will not hold, something is definitely wrong. This will also put less strain on the handbrake cables, making them last longer.

 

[Bigpowerjam]

I can now park on hills with the handbrake on after tightening!

 

[alexGS]

Portland Bill, most 500s in NZ and Australia have the 1.4 engine and rear discs. I'm surprised that the newer TwinAir has drums. Your advice probably still holds - if you'll pardon the pun.

If the 500 is a Dualogic, remember not to touch the gear lever when switching the engine off. Just leave it in the centre and it will be parked in 1st gear - cannot roll away.

-Alex

 

[44sunsets]

If the 500 is a Dualogic, remember not to touch the gear lever when switching the engine off. Just leave it in the centre and it will be parked in 1st gear - cannot roll away.

Yup that's the first thing I checked. I also tried putting it in reverse gear when facing downhill and that didn't help either. It might help on very shallow grades but definitely not on the steep ones.

Will try portland_bill's trick next time I find a big hill.

 

[44sunsets]

I'm assuming you've got drum rear brakes. Here's a tip that works with all drum braked cars, especially useful with older small Fiats and Corsa C.

Stop normally. Do not apply handbrake.
After car is completely stopped, push brake pedal hard. This squeezes the rear brake shoes hard against the drum. (When moving, pressure is restricted, but not after stopped.)
While holding footbrake hard, apply handbrake.
Release footbrake gently and apply relieved smile.

This uses the footbrake to apply the shoes against the drum, the handbrake only has to hold them there, not apply them. If it still will not hold, something is definitely wrong. This will also put less strain on the handbrake cables, making them last longer.

Just a quick update on this, I have used portland_bill's handbrake method (see above) countless times now and it does indeed work on steep gradients

I had another mechanic check out the handbrake mechanism and they said everything was fine -- but the seeming lack of holding ability on hills was still driving me nuts. I then tried portland_bill's method and was so glad that it worked. And to clarify, yes my TwinAir 500C has rear drum brakes.

Definitely one of the top tips I have come across in this forum!

Portland Bill, most 500s in NZ and Australia have the 1.4 engine and rear discs. I'm surprised that the newer TwinAir has drums.
-Alex

It's a bit annoying that they don't fit rear discs to the TwinAir as well. I'm assuming their reasoning is that the TwinAir only delivers 85 bhp (so it's weaker than the 1.4L engine), so it doesn't need rear discs. I hope the new 105 bhp TwinAirs will come with rear discs.