Technical Good vibrations? Maybe not.......

[benmac]

For context car is a 2014 TA 4x4, just coming up on 60k miles. Had all the usual stuff done on them like propshaft bearings etc fairly recently.

I've noticed the last couple of times I've driven it that on high idle (i.e. after a cold start) there's a weird boomy vibration feeling to the idle, you can almost feel it like a pressure wave in your ears. Tickle the throttle and it disappears and all feels normal. Once the car drops to a warm idle again all fine. The particular resonance is at around 1200rpm. To drive it feels fine although if you give it some in 2nd and maybe third it could possibly be a bit more "buzzy" than normal to the extent you can feel it in the gear stick. Again, once it's a bit warmer it seems to go.

I haven't driven it much at all in the past week or so, so no more diagnostics than that and haven't opened the bonnet for a look yet either.

Any ideas? Engine mounts, gearbox mounts, exhaust blowing a touch?

 

[jrkitching]

Any ideas?

The obvious suspect would have to be the DMF. Judging from other posts here, failure at this sort of mileage is to be expected on a TA.

If it is the DMF and you leave it, it will get worse and become more obvious. The problem with doing this is that the clearances are very tight and a failing DMF can also damage the bellhousing, and will put extra stress on the gearbox internals, making the repair more difficult and more expensive.

If they're still the originals, and you are planning on keeping this car, then I'd just change the clutch and DMF now; that way, you won't have to worry about them for the next 60,000 miles or so.

If you can do the work yourself, the parts aren't dealbreakingly expensive; if you use a decent independent garage, I'd expect somewhere in the region of £800-£1000 all in.

 

[benmac]

Oh great shout. Why didn't I think of that? Doh.

I'll have a think about DIYing. It wouldn't be impossible but I've done a load of stuff on other cars recently and still have some other jobs I need to do so may just bite the bullet and ask the local (very decent) indy place to do it.

 

[jrkitching]

I'll have a think about DIYing. It wouldn't be impossible but I've done a load of stuff on other cars recently and still have some other jobs I need to do so may just bite the bullet and ask the local (very decent) indy place to do it.

It's not exactly hard, but equally not a way I'd want to spend a day. The facilities you have for working on it may be a consideration, too.

I'd say it's worth getting a quote to find out how much you'd save by doing it yourself.

And remember the forum discount if you buy the parts from S4P!

 

[benmac]

Yeah, I'll make some enquiries. Annoyingly my mate who would also have been another pair of hands to do it has just given up his unit that had a two post ramp in it. I've got one of those quickjack scissor lift things but obviously that only goes so high. And I'd need to evict one of my tarty cars from the garage while we did it so if it went over a day that'd be awkward.

 

[Panda IIs]

Oh great shout. Why didn't I think of that? Doh.

I'll have a think about DIYing. It wouldn't be impossible but I've done a load of stuff on other cars recently and still have some other jobs I need to do so may just bite the bullet and ask the local (very decent) indy place to do it.

My first thought was DMF too (2013 TA 4x4) vibration through the gear shift was most prominent maybe up to 2000rpm especially in 2nd and 3rd gears (probably due to other noises taking over at higher speeds?).

Definitely do the clutch and release bearing "while you are in there". If the DMF starts to run off centre it damages the gearbox primary shaft casing;

 

[benmac]

Yeah, that sounds exactly like it. I guess that once it's spinning at a decent rate (above 3k rpm) it more naturally balances out. Yep, clutch etc will be done as part of it.

 

[benmac]

Just priced it all up on Shop4parts. £411 for the DMF and the full clutch kit including the forum discount.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Just priced it all up on Shop4parts. £411 for the DMF and the full clutch kit including the forum discount.

Ive had a quote of 1400 to do clutch, slave DMF, release forks etc from the alfa / fiat workshop. 6.5 hours in the shop. BOTH SPECIALISTS i asked say drop the subframe. Im also changing the prop while it is off but thats extra. It sounds like how mine has gone. From outside, a few yards away it now sounds bad but improved when warmed. Drives ok tho. My car goes for repair next monday and i'll report back after.

 

[benmac]

Cool, ta. I'm going past the local chap I trust tomorrow so will drop in and see him. He may want to get the parts himself which will be fair enough as long as the price is aligned with what I can get them for. He's happy for me to provide him with specific oils when necessary on certain cars so he'll probably be OK.

 

[Panda IIs]

Just priced it all up on Shop4parts. £411 for the DMF and the full clutch kit including the forum discount.

Sounds like a decent price S4P usually have OEM or equivalent brands.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Sounds like a decent price S4P usually have OEM or equivalent brands.

My TA 4x4 was bought new in 2018 but has only done 13000 miles (too may bikes/cars etc) I have just noticed that at around 2000rpm in an appropriate gear ,just climbing a gentle gradient I get a new vibration. It is particularly noticeable as coming from behind the dash on passenger side. The vibration goes away if the car is accelerated. Seems only to occur at 2000 rpm or VERY close to that.
Surely not a DMF problem at that mileage PLEASE!
I'm not sure if this is relevant but I seem to recall that someone suggested that changing down and letting the car lose speed on the engine revs was not something that the TA was happy with
Any ideas please, and comment on the down change system of losing speed.
Thanks in anticipation

 

[The Panda Nut]

Ive had mine in the garage today. They seem to think its a paragon of smoothness. However its much as you Descibe. Ive has if from new and its been treated with great care. ive decicded my vibration and the mooing noises the clutch makes are the most likely cause. Stood outside the car ot sounds pretty rough too at times. Anyway its getting the dmf and clutch so we will know in a few days. Its the more likely of the causes. The prop shaft centre bearing is a cheap thing and could be at fault. It might also be a drive shaft so get them checked first. The dmf should be treated with a little extra care changing gear smoothly is all thats needed going up or down the gears. NEVER USETHE ELD OR OFF ROAD MODE on tarmac. Only for snow ice and mud.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Ive had mine in the garage today. They seem to think its a paragon of smoothness. However its much as you Descibe. Ive has if from new and its been treated with great care. ive decicded my vibration and the mooing noises the clutch makes are the most likely cause. Stood outside the car ot sounds pretty rough too at times. Anyway its getting the dmf and clutch so we will know in a few days. Its the more likely of the causes. The prop shaft centre bearing is a cheap thing and could be at fault. It might also be a drive shaft so get them checked first. The dmf should be treated with a little extra care changing gear smoothly is allthats needed going upor down tge gears. NEVER USETHE ELD OR OFF ROAD MODE on tarmac. Only for snow ice and mud.

THanks for that PN. Went out today in the little beast and it did NOT seem to manifest the same vibration.
If I admit to the truth, firstly the tyres were a wee bit below recommended pressure the previous time and the stretch of road where it mostly occured is notorious for TYRE noise.
I am now running the tyres at 2psi over recommendation and that seems to cure or at least minimise road noise. and vibrations.
I'm probably a bit paranoid about pressures, as on one of my bikes (I won't name it) if front tyre is a little bit low it can shake it's head at one particular speed or if the panniers are loaded and on certain (radius ) curve.
I feel happier about the situation now and have got plenty of other things to worry about anyway
Thanks

 

[jrkitching]

I am now running the tyres at 2psi over recommendation

I've done that for the past forty years.

Improves tyre life and fuel economy, a little less wear on the steering parts, and gives you a little extra protection if you run into a pothole. Downside is a slightly harsher ride.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Guys at the Alfa Workshop have a TA outside thats done 180,000 miles and they say its on the original clutch and DMF. Its a bit rattly in general but perfectly functional. They say even though the DMF may cause some damage to the bellhousing they have never changed one yet. The damage to the gearbox case was not material to the working of the clutch. I dont want mooing noises so I reckon I need a clutch release bearing at least so Im doing the job, If it lasts another 7 years I will be changing the car by then I expect.

 

[benmac]

All sorted! The DMF was indeed dead.

All in it cost me £1183 (DMF, clutch and fitting). I let them get the parts themselves for warranty purposes but did point them to Shop4parts. Parts prices are identical to what Shop4parts charge so I think they went there.

All feels good and actually suggests to me that before I could feel it it was likely on it's way oiut anyway as it feels much tighter again now. Amusingly they said they'd done the same job on a 500 a couple of months back which was an utter nightmare apparently so they approached mine with some trepidation but it was apparently a breeze with everything coming undone as it should etc. To quote the chap "the sign of a well kept car and dealing with issues when you first notice them rather than leaving it until it's terrible".