Technical Glow plug troubleshooting

[Woodyvan]

I got them out on my 2007 van, at least 3 of them. One snapped and is now stuck. Of course the one right under the leaky scuttle. The connector was already rotten away so I was not surprised. the 3.0 will start at light freezing temps without the glow plugs, although a bit difficult. I had 2 working ones for a while and that improved it a bit. The 2 working ones died in the last 3 years as well so I had to do something... The one that snap probably snapped below 20nm as I was using my hand and a small 1/4" T-piece of 10cm in width. I thought it was moving and pooof, no warning.

For EURO 5 you will probably need the glow plugs for regeneration as already was mentioned: the engine will try to burn of fuel in the exhaust stroke in order to heat up the DPF to burn soot. Without glow plugs the diesel will stay unburned and possibly end up in the engine oil (at least some Volvo's suffer from this) and you might clog up the DPF. I have a EURO 4 so I'll get away with 1 faulty one.

Well its that same No.4 plug that has failed on mine, right under where the water used to drain down before I did a modification on the scuttle. Today I checked voltage to each plug by opening the Delphi connector and was getting 12.6V in each case. The I reconnected and put a clamp meter around each of the 4 wires in turn to check the amperage and got nothing but a brief blip - it was obviously tripping out which was consistent with the MES fault code 'Short circuit to ground'. I managed to get the lead off the number 4 plug a and now I'm getting a reading of about 12A on one of the other plugs. So despite earlier resistance checks being within limits, No. 4 is definitely short circuit. I'll redo the tests tomorrow just to make double sure but I think I've found the culprit which is a good start. As for whether to try and get it out, have you experienced any problems leaving the broken plug in place? I would be worried about it leaking through a stripped or blowing out/ dropping into the bore. Can that even happen? Did you screw the broken top half back in?

 

[Googlebot]

Well its that same No.4 plug that has failed on mine, right under where the water used to drain down before I did a modification on the scuttle. Today I checked voltage to each plug by opening the Delphi connector and was getting 12.6V in each case. The I reconnected and put a clamp meter around each of the 4 wires in turn to check the amperage and got nothing but a brief blip - it was obviously tripping out which was consistent with the MES fault code 'Short circuit to ground'. I managed to get the lead off the number 4 plug an and now I'm getting a reading of about 12A on one of the other plugs. So despite earlier resistance checks being within limits, No. 4 is definitely short circuit. I'll redo the tests tomorrow just to make double sure but I think I've found the culprit which is a good start. As for whether to try and get it out, have you experienced any problems leaving the broken plug in place? I would be worried about it leaking through a stripped or blowing out/ dropping into the bore. Can that even happen? Did you screw the broken top half back in?

Number 1 was on the left hand side as you look in the front.

I managed to do that one without dismantling anything, the rest, not a chance! Plastic manifold with the throttle body right at the top, required removal of the high pressure fuel line to the injectors as well. Cross member also needed to come off. Removing the radiator would make it much, much easier but the engine goes cold very quickly.

It wasn’t technically difficult, there just wasn’t a lot of room. I snapped this fuel pipe off, you can see it between the radiator and engine below the manifold. It cost £22 to replace but access was a pain.

Regarding regenerations, you can see if it’s successful via MES and if so, I think it will work with a resister and also get rid of the warning, however, it isn’t something I would do for the problems that potentially might happen that have already been mentioned.

I spoke to a mechanic who is an expert in Fiat vans, we run 500 at work. His advice was change them, but if it doesn’t move, leave alone and take to an expert. They use someone in Stafford I think, if they snap one off, he sorts it without removing the head in most cases.

I would be tempted to get the engine hot, after soaking them in release agent for days and give it a go. I had to work 2 of mine back and forwards for quite some time, but they did come out, number 2 took 10 minutes of very gentle back and forth.

If they don’t move, try the resistor trick then or take it to a specialist would be my route.

 

[Woodyvan]

Number 1 was on the left hand side as you look in the front.

I managed to do that one without dismantling anything, the rest, not a chance! Plastic manifold with the throttle body right at the top, required removal of the high pressure fuel line to the injectors as well. Cross member also needed to come off. Removing the radiator would make it much, much easier but the engine goes cold very quickly.

It wasn’t technically difficult, there just wasn’t a lot of room. I snapped this fuel pipe off, you can see it between the radiator and engine below the manifold. It cost £22 to replace but access was a pain.

View attachment 456100

Regarding regenerations, you can see if it’s successful via MES and if so, I think it will work with a resister and also get rid of the warning, however, it isn’t something I would do for the problems that potentially might happen that have already been mentioned.

I spoke to a mechanic who is an expert in Fiat vans, we run 500 at work. His advice was change them, but if it doesn’t move, leave alone and take to an expert. They use someone in Stafford I think, if they snap one off, he sorts it without removing the head in most cases.

I would be tempted to get the engine hot, after soaking them in release agent for days and give it a go. I had to work 2 of mine back and forwards for quite some time, but they did come out, number 2 took 10 minutes of very gentle back and forth.

If they don’t move, try the resistor trick then or take it to a specialist would be my route.

Thanks Googlebot. Mine is No.4 (far right) which I got to by removing the crinkly steel pipe from the EGR into the plastic manifold flange (the bolts at the and and two EGR end. Cross member did have to come out but not too difficult, just fiddly. Radiator still in place. I don't think I need to pull the manifold off for this if it's just No.4. For No.2 and No.3 - absolutely!. Your experts advice sounds good, I'l soak it in Plus Gas and see if it moves with 10Nm. If not, I'll see what MES says about the regeneration and it that's OK I'll probably run with 3 plugs and do the resistor trick. Thanks for all the help on here.

 

[Googlebot]

Thanks Googlebot. Mine is No.4 (far right) which I got to by removing the crinkly steel pipe from the EGR into the plastic manifold flange (the bolts at the and and two EGR end. Cross member did have to come out but not too difficult, just fiddly. Radiator still in place. I don't think I need to pull the manifold off for this if it's just No.4. For No.2 and No.3 - absolutely!. Your experts advice sounds good, I'l soak it in Plus Gas and see if it moves with 10Nm. If not, I'll see what MES says about the regeneration and it that's OK I'll probably run with 3 plugs and do the resistor trick. Thanks for all the help on here.

Good luck.

Not trying to be Mr Miserable, I changed number 1 and thought I was sorted. Then 3 months later number 3 gave up. :-(

On the plus side, I knew what to do after the first one.

 

[nigelvan]

No issue leaving it in as it was the top bit that broke off (really the hexagonal bit - I think that's the english word, where you put the socket on). The elektrode is still sticking out a bit so the cylinder is still sealed. But I would like to get it sorted, but not now. I might get a specialized drill kit. The glow plugs are well accessible on my engine. The problem is I need to get the electrode/tungsten out of the way, then I can drill it out...

Like @Googlebot mentioned, going back and forth, that is if you get any movement in them. I did 3 of them, working each of them for 10 min , treating them like they were made of glass. I don't think I used more force on number 4, but it snapped anyway. But keep in mind, mine have been in there for 17 years... Soak them everyday and drive around so the penetrant can do its job. Also, when you feel movement, add more penetrant (WD40 worked best for me on that moment) and you will feel the difference...

EDIT:

Use something like this, yes it hurts your hand after a while but I don't think you can overtorque with this when putting the socket between middle and ring finger...

 

[nigelvan]

I have just released the video about me changing the glow plugs, at least 3 of them were successful. Maybe this can help you @Woodyvan...

 

[Woodyvan]

I have just released the video about me changing the glow plugs, at least 3 of them were successful. Maybe this can help you @Woodyvan...

Thanks Nigelvan. Great video which suitably demonstrates why I don't want to do this! My number 4 plug looks very much like yours if not worse around the seat. If yours wouldn't budge I'm convinced mine has no chance and since I'm only having problems with that one I'm going to leave it where it is until one or two of the others fail and then be prepared to get a professional in to do the lot. The resistor bypass trick will ensure I know when that happens. A mechanic today told me he was sure a damaged plug could not harm the DPF which uses unburned fuel during the regeneration so I'm less concerned about that now. I have wired a 100W 1ohm resistor on a piece of aluminium heat sink and bolted it to the cross member out of the way. It works perfectly and now all 3 other plugs are getting current (about 12A quickly dropping to about 8A as the plug warms) for about 15 seconds and the engine fires perfectly. I checked the resistor temperature after 5 or 6 consecutive power-ups and it got warm to the touch but the heat quickly dissipates via the heat sink. Warning light is also gone and if it comes back ill know that one of the other plugs has failed and then it's a full strip down - inlet manifold etc. which there is currently no need to take on. All in all a great solution. Thanks to everyone on here for your help. I hope my comments are of some use to others with this problem.

 

[RS3100]

I'l soak it in Plus Gas and see if it moves with 10Nm. If not, I'll see what MES says about the regeneration and it that's OK I'll probably run with 3 plugs and do the resistor trick. Thanks for all the help on here.

A chap who used to run a fleet of Ducatos and was active on motorhome forums once recommended Innotec Deblock Oil for treating potentially seized or corroded in components before attempting to release them. He said that he had had repeated success with the product after soaking injectors for several days whereas previously his fleet had suffered some which had to be mechanically removed, and it was the best stuff he had used.

I've never used the stuff in anger in those circumstances, but I have used it on seized nuts and bolts to good effect, and it does seem much more effective than WD40, Plus Gas etc. Once a year, I spray it into the injector channel on top of my 2.3 multijet in the hope that it may have done some good should I ever need to remove one of them.

 

[nigelvan]

Thanks Nigelvan. Great video which suitably demonstrates why I don't want to do this! My number 4 plug looks very much like yours if not worse around the seat. If yours wouldn't budge I'm convinced mine has no chance and since I'm only having problems with that one I'm going to leave it where it is until one or two of the others fail and then be prepared to get a professional in to do the lot. The resistor bypass trick will ensure I know when that happens. A mechanic today told me he was sure a damaged plug could not harm the DPF which uses unburned fuel during the regeneration so I'm less concerned about that now. I have wired a 100W 1ohm resistor on a piece of aluminium heat sink and bolted it to the cross member out of the way. It works perfectly and now all 3 other plugs are getting current (about 12A quickly dropping to about 8A as the plug warms) for about 15 seconds and the engine fires perfectly. I checked the resistor temperature after 5 or 6 consecutive power-ups and it got warm to the touch but the heat quickly dissipates via the heat sink. Warning light is also gone and if it comes back ill know that one of the other plugs has failed and then it's a full strip down - inlet manifold etc. which there is currently no need to take on. All in all a great solution. Thanks to everyone on here for your help. I hope my comments are of some use to others with this problem.

Well, yeah, in hindsight when making the video I'm actually surprised I only snapped one . Good luck to the 3 remaining plugs in your block!