General Getting Cross!

[JonboyPandamonium]

My MK3 Panda 4x4, finally died, last year… my own fault!!! I parked it in my garage for a year without any preparation, and it developed some kind of fuel delivery fault which, amongst other rotting and niggles became uneconomical to keep going… anyhow!

We now need another 4th car… for my 19yr old daughter to drive when home from Uni… and for my own fun!!! In our ownership the car will do 3k miles per annum… max!

I’m going to buy a used Panda Cross 4x4 TwinAir… it’s got all the modern car bits, Bluetooth etc thats important to my daughter, including low insurance group, and I love the throaty TwinAir engine and off-road styling of the Cross…

My first observation… wow! they are expensive! The age isn’t too important… but my instinct on all matters such as this, is mileage… I’m looking at cars with 30-40k (maybe up to 50k) with full service history…
Would I be safe going to a higher mileage car, to save a couple of grand£££

I’ve heard mixed reports on the TwinAir, in that it’s a super engine… when it’s running, but needs a bit more TLC in its life???

Also, any general advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[boozyjay]

What's your budget?

 

[porta]

My MK3 Panda 4x4, finally died, last year… my own fault!!! I parked it in my garage for a year without any preparation, and it developed some kind of fuel delivery fault which, amongst other rotting and niggles became uneconomical to keep going… anyhow!

We now need another 4th car… for my 19yr old daughter to drive when home from Uni… and for my own fun!!! In our ownership the car will do 3k miles per annum… max!

I’m going to buy a used Panda Cross 4x4 TwinAir… it’s got all the modern car bits, Bluetooth etc thats important to my daughter, including low insurance group, and I love the throaty TwinAir engine and off-road styling of the Cross…

My first observation… wow! they are expensive! The age isn’t too important… but my instinct on all matters such as this, is mileage… I’m looking at cars with 30-40k (maybe up to 50k) with full service history…
Would I be safe going to a higher mileage car, to save a couple of grand£££

I’ve heard mixed reports on the TwinAir, in that it’s a super engine… when it’s running, but needs a bit more TLC in its life???

Also, any general advice is greatly appreciated.

Twinairs don’t like being stood…mines a bit sluggish if it’s been left, but a good run sorts it out without resorting to actually fixing anything…hoping it will get a lot more use wehn the Cherokee XJ goes, especially with fuel prices the way they are…I love my TA Cross, just make sure you use the right oils!

 

[jrkitching]

My first observation… wow! they are expensive!

If you've not looked seriously in the market for a few years, car prices will shock you, both new and used.

Folks are keeping cars longer now, and are less likely to trade in a good used car just because they fancy something different, so the quality of used car stock has definitely declined. What's available is quite likely to have been traded away because of some problem or other; it's buyer beware out there.

As far as the TA is concerned, the three known failure points you didn't have to worry about with the 1.2 are the DMF, the uniair module and the turbocharger. Any of these can make a sizeable dent in your wallet, but the clutch/DMF is the one we see most often here. Expect to have to replace both anywhere from 40K upwards; you'll likely pay £1200-£1500 unless you can do the work yourself. Check carefully the terms of any warranty, since this is considered a wear and tear part and isn't always covered.

Several folks have posted here needing DMF replacements on recently purchased used TA's. If you notice any suspicious vibrations or noise on test drive, walk away.

If you just want a runaround for your daughter, then a 2WD 1.2 will likely cost quite a bit less, both to buy and to keep on the road.

Check the condition of the rear subframe on your existing car before scrapping it; if it's still sound, it might have some value. Sound ones are as rare as hen's teeth and an MOT failure here will almost certainly scrap a car.

 

[Panda IIs]

I've a 101k 4x4 TA on a 63 plate. It gets used pretty regularly and has help two teenagers learn to drive from it being in my ownership from 48k miles. During that time it has had two DMF/clutches (although I suspect the DMF was not replaced and just the clutch first time round. The multiair unit had to be replaced at 50k this I suspect due to a lack of servicing (as above the TA must get the right oil and regularly change it) since then it has been great and my purchase price reflected the lack of history. I would buy another one at a drop of a hat. With any second hand car I buy I always anticipate issues so my buying strategy is to negotiate hard. Unless at the end of a lease most cars are on the market for a reason and not usually a good one!

 

[The Panda Nut]

My MK3 Panda 4x4, finally died, last year… my own fault!!! I parked it in my garage for a year without any preparation, and it developed some kind of fuel delivery fault which, amongst other rotting and niggles became uneconomical to keep going… anyhow!

We now need another 4th car… for my 19yr old daughter to drive when home from Uni… and for my own fun!!! In our ownership the car will do 3k miles per annum… max!

I’m going to buy a used Panda Cross 4x4 TwinAir… it’s got all the modern car bits, Bluetooth etc thats important to my daughter, including low insurance group, and I love the throaty TwinAir engine and off-road styling of the Cross…

My first observation… wow! they are expensive! The age isn’t too important… but my instinct on all matters such as this, is mileage… I’m looking at cars with 30-40k (maybe up to 50k) with full service history…
Would I be safe going to a higher mileage car, to save a couple of grand£££

I’ve heard mixed reports on the TwinAir, in that it’s a super engine… when it’s running, but needs a bit more TLC in its life???

Also, any general advice is greatly appreciated.

My advice, DONT! 3K is not enought to keep it healthy. I think lack of use does neither the uniair nor DMF any favours. I would not tempt fete!!

I changed my oil yesterday. The oil at 5K was pretty black. Wiping out the filter housing it was rather too gunged for my liking. I am convinced that the engine really needs more use, and that 5k is the MAXIMUM safe distance for oil changes. Maybe a higher mialge user would find differrently.

Get a 1.2 City Cross.

 

[The Panda Nut]

If you've not looked seriously in the market for a few years, car prices will shock you, both new and used.

Folks are keeping cars longer now, and are less likely to trade in a good used car just because they fancy something different, so the quality of used car stock has definitely declined. What's available is quite likely to have been traded away because of some problem or other; it's buyer beware out there.

As far as the TA is concerned, the three known failure points you didn't have to worry about with the 1.2 are the DMF, the uniair module and the turbocharger. Any of these can make a sizeable dent in your wallet, but the clutch/DMF is the one we see most often here. Expect to have to replace both anywhere from 40K upwards; you'll likely pay £1200-£1500 unless you can do the work yourself. Check carefully the terms of any warranty, since this is considered a wear and tear part and isn't always covered.

Several folks have posted here needing DMF replacements on recently purchased used TA's. If you notice any suspicious vibrations or noise on test drive, walk away.

If you just want a runaround for your daughter, then a 2WD 1.2 will likely cost quite a bit less, both to buy and to keep on the road.

Check the condition of the rear subframe on your existing car before scrapping it; if it's still sound, it might have some value. Sound ones are as rare as hen's teeth and an MOT failure here will almost certainly scrap a car.

Ditto moaning mooing noises when gently slipping the clutch say when parking or reversing. Great point on the sub frame. It could be worth more than the car.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The 4x4 costs more ‘used’ because they’re more scarce. A late Euro 6 diesel version (so ULEZ compliant) even more so. The 4x4 adds weight and lowers gearing, so costs more to run. And there’s more to go wrong generally. Also costs more to insure, mostly owing to all the above
Do you need 4x4??
(Says he, who has a late, Euro 6, diesel 4x4 sat outside )

 

[JonboyPandamonium]

If you've not looked seriously in the market for a few years, car prices will shock you, both new and used.

Folks are keeping cars longer now, and are less likely to trade in a good used car just because they fancy something different, so the quality of used car stock has definitely declined. What's available is quite likely to have been traded away because of some problem or other; it's buyer beware out there.

As far as the TA is concerned, the three known failure points you didn't have to worry about with the 1.2 are the DMF, the uniair module and the turbocharger. Any of these can make a sizeable dent in your wallet, but the clutch/DMF is the one we see most often here. Expect to have to replace both anywhere from 40K upwards; you'll likely pay £1200-£1500 unless you can do the work yourself. Check carefully the terms of any warranty, since this is considered a wear and tear part and isn't always covered.

Several folks have posted here needing DMF replacements on recently purchased used TA's. If you notice any suspicious vibrations or noise on test drive, walk away.

If you just want a runaround for your daughter, then a 2WD 1.2 will likely cost quite a bit less, both to buy and to keep on the road.

Check the condition of the rear subframe on your existing car before scrapping it; if it's still sound, it might have some value. Sound ones are as rare as hen's teeth and an MOT failure here will almost certainly scrap a car.

Brilliant advice… thank you… notwithstanding my daughters requirements… I want a 4x4 specifically, I used my MK3 for some snow fun / green lane-ing, and as a mountain bike carrier… so would like to do that again.

I’ve driven the twin air a couple of times… I find the engine quite throaty and raucous… how do I spot the fine line between the sprited nature of the engine… and potential problem vibration?

 

[JonboyPandamonium]

The 4x4 costs more ‘used’ because they’re more scarce. A late Euro 6 diesel version (so ULEZ compliant) even more so. The 4x4 adds weight and lowers gearing, so costs more to run. And there’s more to go wrong generally. Also costs more to insure, mostly owing to all the above
Do you need 4x4??
(Says he, who has a late, Euro 6, diesel 4x4 sat outside )

There’s a fine line between “need” and “want”

 

[The Panda Nut]

The 4x4 costs more ‘used’ because they’re more scarce. A late Euro 6 diesel version (so ULEZ compliant) even more so. The 4x4 adds weight and lowers gearing, so costs more to run. And there’s more to go wrong generally. Also costs more to insure, mostly owing to all the above
Do you need 4x4??
(Says he, who has a late, Euro 6, diesel 4x4 sat outside )

Totally agree, and I have one too. 10mpg less than the 2wd. But I love him.

 

[The Panda Nut]

There’s a fine line between “need” and “want”

Yes I NEED the 4x4 dear.... Yes, absolutely vital!

 

[JonboyPandamonium]

What's your budget?

Not necessarily got a budget… I know that sounds a bit grand, apologies… my daughter is going to use it, so it needs to be right… I was thinking £8k… but if there was an absolute Bobby Dazzler, I’d go to 10 or even 11k…

 

[The Panda Nut]

DMF failures not to be dismissed!! The TA is however the easiest car Ive ever serviced. Exhausts and rear brakes are also mortgage jobs. 1.2s are reliable as clockwork running right quite quick enough for 18yr olds. TA is too quick for a first car and needs mechanical sympathy.

 

[JonboyPandamonium]

My MK3 Panda 4x4, finally died, last year… my own fault!!! I parked it in my garage for a year without any preparation, and it developed some kind of fuel delivery fault which, amongst other rotting and niggles became uneconomical to keep going… anyhow!

We now need another 4th car… for my 19yr old daughter to drive when home from Uni… and for my own fun!!! In our ownership the car will do 3k miles per annum… max!

I’m going to buy a used Panda Cross 4x4 TwinAir… it’s got all the modern car bits, Bluetooth etc thats important to my daughter, including low insurance group, and I love the throaty TwinAir engine and off-road styling of the Cross…

My first observation… wow! they are expensive! The age isn’t too important… but my instinct on all matters such as this, is mileage… I’m looking at cars with 30-40k (maybe up to 50k) with full service history…
Would I be safe going to a higher mileage car, to save a couple of grand£££

I’ve heard mixed reports on the TwinAir, in that it’s a super engine… when it’s running, but needs a bit more TLC in its life???

Also, any general advice is greatly appreciated.

Morning all, thanks for all of your great advice… sorry if I’ve ignored some of it, but I really had set my heart on a TA Cross!
What I did do though is really target a lower mileage example, so I could really start caring for it before any thing had a chance to go wrong. I’ve just bought a 2020 with 25k on for £10k in a private sale. From a sympathetic owner, it’s had its oil done in the last 5k and seems to have had a few extra care items like hamerited brake calipers etc… so im hoping it bodes well. I’m picking it up Tuesday… so notwithstanding any serious vibrations. I’m back in Pandamonium!
Any advice and observations always welcome.

 

[Panda IIs]

Morning all, thanks for all of your great advice… sorry if I’ve ignored some of it, but I really had set my heart on a TA Cross!
What I did do though is really target a lower mileage example, so I could really start caring for it before any thing had a chance to go wrong. I’ve just bought a 2020 with 25k on for £10k in a private sale. From a sympathetic owner, it’s had its oil done in the last 5k and seems to have had a few extra care items like hamerited brake calipers etc… so im hoping it bodes well. I’m picking it up Tuesday… so notwithstanding any serious vibrations. I’m back in Pandamonium!
Any advice and observations always welcome.

Sounds good - enjoy! One other item that hasn't (I think) come up is the undertray/skid plate. This holds water and rots with the passage of time. Not mechanically critical but benefits from some TLC. My TA one lasted 10+years with no care but then was beyond repair and required replacement.

 

[JonboyPandamonium]

Sounds good - enjoy! One other item that hasn't (I think) come up is the undertray/skid plate. This holds water and rots with the passage of time. Not mechanically critical but benefits from some TLC. My TA one lasted 10+years with no care but then was beyond repair and required replacement.

Could this be resolved with a strategic drill hole?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Could this be resolved with a strategic drill hole?

I think some of it can- I seem to recall saying I'd do this sometime...
But also, like so much of the rest of the car (and all cars), simply washing out mud and winter salt from places it accumulates goes a long way too.

 

[Panda IIs]

Here's the 4x4 version (I am assuming that the Cross is similar) they do vary I believe between TA and MJ engines. I found the issue is mainly that the thicker attachment "rails" which are 6mm thick bar are only tack welded leaving a gap between them and the pressed sheet steel. So strategic holes? Maybe not. Some have advocated regular cleaning and painting.

 

[Panda IIs]

I took a more pragmatic view (lazy some might say!) In that the original lasted over 10 years so, the new one got an extra coat of paint and will probably outlast something else more mechanically critical and terminal.

It does come off every oil change so it can get a bit of a wash and brush up. Also the 10mm a/f fasteners tend to seize so I swapped those out for some stainless Allen bolts from Screwfix fitted with some copper grease.