Technical Gearbox Change - Grande Punto

[CWA]

Hi folks, planning on swapping my mates Grande Punto gearbox for him. His third gear is totally knackered so we're planning to swap it for a recon unit.

Just need a bit of info, what size nut holds the drivehafts in at the wheel/hub end?
What holds the driveshafts in at the gearbox end? Am used to my VW's which use 30mm nuts and M12 spline bolts respectively..

When removing the clutch actuation from the old box, does the master cylinder just unbolt from the casing and the clutch lever, without any loss of fluid etc? Will the clutch have to be re-adjusted at the pedal or gearbox end upon refitting?

I'm assuming everything else uses simple sockets and extensions, including gear linkages?

Any advice from experience would be great, cheers

 

[CWA]

Nobody on here has changed a Grande Punto gearbox then?

 

[D4nny8oy]

I thought you said you worked at a Fiat Dealership for a year? The 'box attached to the 8v is one of the easiest anyone can ever do and every Fiat Tech will do at least 2 or 3 a year, even apprentices (with guidance).

What you do with the driveshafts depends on what comes on the recon box. If it comes with the inner cv 'cups' which are held in the diff by a clip on the splines, then all you need to do is cut the gaiter clip and undo N/S bottom ball joint/strut bolts and swing the N/S shaft out of the way. You'll need new clips and grease though- cable ties don't always clamp tight enough and leak grease. If you've got to re-use the originals, then pop them out with a lever bar, and if you need to undo the hub nut it's a 32mm (new one needed and staked).

The clutch slave just unbolts from the lever arm, and being a hydraulic system there is no adjustment to do.

Gear cable ends pop off the linkage, then undo the 3 bolts holding the cable mounting bracket down.

 

[CWA]

Thanks for the reply dude. Umm I don't know where you got that impression but I haven't ever worked in a Fiat dealer lol

I presume you can buy the grease, boot clips and drivehshaft nuts from the local Fiat dealer?

I'm imagining the box will come with no parts of the CV joints left in, does gearbox oil leak out when the driveshaft is removed totally? What tool is required for the box drain and refill plugs?

Thanks again for the help, having trouble finding a manual for this car.. !

 

[D4nny8oy]

Apologies, I could've sworn I saw that in a post you made. Never mind!

Yep, with the cups removed you'll lose some oil. Drain bung is on the diff casing (12mm hex IIRC) and refill bung is halfway up the front (fill until oil runs out).

All clips/grease/nuts should be available off the shelf at the Dealer.

 

[CWA]

Thanks mate, I started it today. The fill hole is a 12mm but the drain is slightly smaller (10 or 8, haven't opened it yet).

Just wondering if you could clarify how to remove the driveshafts from the diff? Is there a retaining clip that's stopping them being pulled out?

How is best to manoeuvre the driveshafts out of the box once the gearbox is all loose, will the drivehafts have to be removed from the hub ends aswell?

 

[D4nny8oy]

Yeah 8mm rings a bell.

There's a simple circlip sitting in a groove cut into the inner cup spline. It tends to hold on fairly tight, but 2 lever bars against the cup and casing usually work, and/or gentle persuasion with a hammer and blunt chisel can have the desired effect.

There should be enough clearance to swing the shafts out of the way by undoing the bottom ball joint from the hub.

I'd mark the position of the gearbox mounting relative to it's upper part (3 female torx bolts) as the holes are oversized and you can end up with tension in the mount if it's not tightened down in the right place.

 

[CWA]

Thanks man. These driveshafts are ball ache though. Undid the front wishbone bolt so i've got some room but I just can't get them out of the box..

And I can't find any retaining clips anywhere!! :|

Where is this clip, do I need to split the driveshaft to see it? ow do I split the driveshaft, I have the boot off but can't see anything else..

 

[nickkk]

While your in the subject mate how easy is a gearbox mount to change on a multijet? Mine feels worn out again!

 

[CWA]

Got the gearbox out by just pulling the driveshafts out of their cups. The cups are still in the old box though and I'm having an awful time removing them.

I've tried forcing them with a hammer but not too hard as I've not actually seen any circlips about and I don't want to force it if they are still holding it. I'm convinced there aren't any, should you be able to see the clips from outside the box?

I can't even see a groove to show where the clip should go if it was there.. are they in these pictures at all?

 

[CWA]

Just need to know what this hole is for, tried pulling out a plastic/rubber bung from the old box to replace it in the new one and it broke. I think it's some kind of oil seal but I'm not sure..

 

[D4nny8oy]

It's internal, but it's only a very basic round, incomplete ring. Should pop out easily with a lever bar either side of the cup. If not, try rotating the cup slightly then try again.

 

[D4nny8oy]

Just need to know what this hole is for, tried pulling out a plastic/rubber bung from the old box to replace it in the new one and it broke. I think it's some kind of oil seal but I'm not sure..

It's where the speedo sensor fits on vehicles without ABS, so without the bung you'll end up with a mess.

 

[ycming]

Is this the fire engine ?

If so you sure you need to remove drive shaft ? I have done it on the 8v and 16v engine in a cinquecento, usually once you losen the strut nut there is enough clearnace for the shaft to come out.

Ming

 

[CWA]

The nightmare continues..

Cheers for the replies dannyboy, went to FIAT to order that plug and even the guy at the parts desk didn't know what it was! Do you work for FIAT or something dude?

Anyway, whapped it all together and thought I was done (apart from filling up the box oil etc) and I notice a load of fluid pissing out from the top of the box. Turns out the clutch slave cylinder is leaking, but I have no idea why.

Is there just one seal it can leak from? Does the rubber boot thing actually help contain the clutch fluid or should the piston that slides inside it be sealed aswell? It was coming from the piston/boot area..

If it's just the one obvious seal that has gone, is it worth looking at buying a new seal to put in the cylinder or just buy a whole new cylinder?

Is the bleeding procedure simple enough? DOT-4 fluid or something else?

ycming, not sure which engine it is to be honest, funny story from today actually.. the FIAT database had the car down as a 1.2 but my mate swears it's registered as a 1.4 8V.. so we'll look into that one some more once it's back on the road! But yeah I ended up undoing the front wishbone bolts and twisting the wishbone out to pull the tripod joints out of the driveshaft cups.

 

[D4nny8oy]

The nightmare continues..

Cheers for the replies dannyboy, went to FIAT to order that plug and even the guy at the parts desk didn't know what it was! Do you work for FIAT or something dude?

Fiat Tech for the last 10.5 years... until I quit in June.

Anyway, whapped it all together and thought I was done (apart from filling up the box oil etc) and I notice a load of fluid pissing out from the top of the box. Turns out the clutch slave cylinder is leaking, but I have no idea why.

Is there just one seal it can leak from? Does the rubber boot thing actually help contain the clutch fluid or should the piston that slides inside it be sealed aswell? It was coming from the piston/boot area..

If it's just the one obvious seal that has gone, is it worth looking at buying a new seal to put in the cylinder or just buy a whole new cylinder?

Is the bleeding procedure simple enough? DOT-4 fluid or something else?

Did someone press the clutch pedal while the slave was not engaged in the lever arm? Or did it get caught while hanging? There's only one seal inside, but if it's failed you can't get it seperately, so it's a new slave needed. The boot just prevents dirt ingress.

If you clamp the flexi hose before replacing the slave, you'll only have to bleed the little amount of air that is in the slave. TBH, you should be ok just gravity-bleeding, with just a few pumps to finish.

ycming, not sure which engine it is to be honest, funny story from today actually.. the FIAT database had the car down as a 1.2 but my mate swears it's registered as a 1.4 8V.. so we'll look into that one some more once it's back on the road!

Simple answer to that. Look at the cam cover in this area (next to the oil filler cap)-



If there's a solenoid between the cap and oil breather hose, it's a 1.4,

If there's no solenoid (just a hex blanking plug), it's a 1.2.

Many 1.2/1.4's had the wrong label stuck inside the door aperture from the factory. The Fiat SIGI system (using the reg/VIN) should be correct.

 

[CWA]

Absolute legend man, can't thank you enough. I have a theory, I had to remove the clutch pivoty shaft thing (not sure of precise term lol - the part that pushes the release bearing against the clutch pressure plate) from the old box to put it on the reconditioned one that went back in the car.

When i removed the lever arm that is held on top of this shaft I forgot to note the orientation of it, ie which spines it was held on, so basically at what angle it sat. If i got this wrong, would it have caused the slave cylinder to have 'operated outside of its preferred range', and hence caused the seal to burst?

If so, I'm a little worried as I really don't know how I can reset the position of this lever, and obviously don't want the same problem to occur again. Do you have any tips as to how I might do this?

I should be fine bleeding the rest of the system, just wondering whether the grande punto shares the fluid / master cylinder with the brake system? I've read that older punto's did.. if so, is there any chance air could have got into the braking system, or that the braking system will be affected in any way?

Thansk again man, really appreciate the ongoing help.

 

[D4nny8oy]

When i removed the lever arm that is held on top of this shaft I forgot to note the orientation of it, ie which spines it was held on, so basically at what angle it sat. If i got this wrong, would it have caused the slave cylinder to have 'operated outside of its preferred range', and hence caused the seal to burst?

If so, I'm a little worried as I really don't know how I can reset the position of this lever, and obviously don't want the same problem to occur again. Do you have any tips as to how I might do this?

I should be fine bleeding the rest of the system, just wondering whether the grande punto shares the fluid / master cylinder with the brake system? I've read that older punto's did.. if so, is there any chance air could have got into the braking system, or that the braking system will be affected in any way?

The lever arm has a master spline, so it can't go on wrong. It wouldn't take much to damage the seal, as when released from its mounting the pressure pushes the piston to the end of it's travel. It wouldn't take much to accidently catch the rod and pop it completely out or rip the seal. Just one of those things really.

It shares the brake fluid reservoir, but it's designed so that the take-off for the clutch line is higher than the brake line take-offs, so even with the clutch running dry there'll still be plenty of fluid for the brakes to work.

 

[CWA]

Got a slave cylinder on the way.. was just wondering whether there is any other way of ensuring the lever on the clutch shaft is orientated in the right place?

How much should the piston be moving from where the release bearing is in contact with the pressure plate, to the point where the pressure spring thing is fully compressed (clutch fully disengaged?) I have an awful feeling that I forced the lever onto the wrong setting as I couldn't see any obvious master spline.

Saw another grande punto being broken today and the piston in it's closed position (clutch engaged) was very far into the cylinder (the boot was compressed alot) and I know with the lever setting I currently have the slave cylinder was not in that same position.

 

[CWA]

Sorted, got it all in and release lever on the right spline. Took it out for a test run and the clutch was feeling a bit funny and the pedal wasn't coming back up very well. Bite was right at the bottom of the pedal stroke and had problems getting into 1st, 2nd and reverse due to clutch drag.

Just re-bled the clutch slave cylinder and a few more cheeky bubbles came out which must have been hiding last time. That sorted it and the box is now good as new.

Thanks to everyone who helped, especially Danny Boy (legend)