General Fuel feed problem when cold

[PandaManPaul]

Touch wood, my little Panda is as good as gold and never fails to start.

However, during the past few weeks, when I've left her standing for three or four days, it usually takes about five or six attempts to get her started, and it's obvious from the first few tries that it's a fuel starvation problem. Seems like the petrol is running back to the tank. Yet when I've just left her standing for one day, she'll start perfectly first time. Once I've got her into life she'll be fine for the whole journey. There's no trouble once I'm up and running and performance is great - it's as lively as ever.

Has anyone else experienced a similar thing, and if so, how did you fix it? I've looked in the Haynes and Porter books, but need time to have a look at the dirty bits under the bonnet.

On another matter, it looks like I'll need to change the thermostat soon. The temperature gauge is barely registering any heat, despite travelling about 15 miles! But she's just gone past 98,000 now, so at 100,000 she'll have new oil, oil filter, air filter, plugs, leads, points, dizzy cap, disc brakes and pads, coolant, and thermostat. All in time for her 13th birthday, too.

Better start saving my pennies now!

Thanks in anticipation.

Paul.

 

[kevin_ross100]

try cleaning the small fuel filter on the carb not the main fuel filter its under a bold head where the fuel enters the carb, as for the thermostat yes change it as it should get a lot higher than that sounds like it is sticking open, I have the same problem with starting but its not that bad as to take 5 -6 turns i left it for 2 weeks and it started second time

 

[PandaManPaul]

Thanks for your help kevin []

As I said, she's due a big service very soon, so I'll spend some time and hopefully fix it.

Forgot to mention, for those that don't know, it's a 903cc from March 1992.

 

[kevin_ross100]

not a problem anytime, I have a haynes manual for the panda if you want to borrow it for the big service your not that far away from me

 

[PandaManPaul]

That's very kind of you, but I have the green book, thanks.

Actually, I'm working in Gloucester, so I'm nearer than you think!

 

[kevin_ross100]

god thats scary too many pandas in one place!

 

[Steven]

Paul, my Panda has similar symptoms, but they are intermittent. Most of the time it starts first time every time, but if left sitting it sometimes won't start.

I checked everything I could and eventually decided that it was a fuel pump problem. The funny thing is, when I disconnect the pump under the back seats and clean the contacts/wiggle the wires it fires up.

 

[John H]

It may well be the pump, or some other slow leak at, or near the carb - but Pauls problem won't be a pump in the boot, as his Panda has a mechanical pump driven off the engine (1992, pre fuel injection ).

A quick look at Porter gives no information, but the early pages of Haynes suggest a repair kit is available for the pumps which can be dismantled (but not all of them can).

Rather than splashing out randomly in the hope of getting a cure, it might be worth a dismantle after the several days standing, just to prove the pump is dry - I'd expect it to take several turns to prime.

FWIW, our Morris 1000 turns over several times before starting after standing for months, despite an electric fuel pump (which does go "tick, tick, tick", when the ignition is switched on), I believe this slow starting is due to sticking valves giving no significant induction suck.

 

[Steven]

John, your knowledge of Pandas is astonishing...

 

[Harllequin]

When I got my panda it wouldn't start at all. I replaced the Fuel pump as it's cost was only £14.10p but that did not help.

Next I replaced the flexi rubber fuel pipe on the engine side.
The hard plastic fuel pipe sits under the air intake box under the bonnet vent. It's tough to get it off but a small cut with a sharp knife works wonders. Just dont cut too far into the plastic pipe.
The bits I replaced were from that hard plastic to the filter, from the filter to the pump, then from the pump to the carb. All in all a 20 min job to do the lot.

Total cost £14.10p (had spare rubber hose in the shed)

Now it starts every time on the 3rd turn max.

The flexi hoses are a bugger when old as sometimes they can look fine but when you move them about you discover a dirty big split

Hope you get sorted soon.

Darren

 

[BON]

I had this problem I found using "Easystart" which is about £4 from a car shop gets it going pretty quick.

 

[PandaManPaul]

Thanks everyone for your helpful and quick replies

I've got plenty to investigate now! I'll keep you updated...

 

[John H]

John, your knowledge of Pandas is astonishing...

Blushes.

I know a bit, and sometimes will find a bit more out with the books - time and enthusiasm permitting.

It must be said there are plenty of others out there with good knowledge too..

 

[PandaManPaul]

Update: Fuel feed problem when cold

Hurrah - we've got things sorted Sort of...

First job was the thermostat. After discovering that on my 903 it's the thermostat and housing as one unit, I raided the piggy bank and bought one from my local friendly Fiat dealer. Also picked up five litres of finest anti-freeze from Halfrauds. (It was pink!)

Thermostat fitted fine and all was well. The temperature gauge showed the engine warming up as it used to and within three miles she was up to a healthy 85 degrees. That was on 29 December.

The following day, I popped down the M5 to have a drink with some friends from work and she took me the 45 miles to there without any problems.

On the following morning (31 December), I set out to drive back up the M5 and within half a mile there was a somewhat spectacular display of steam coming out of the slotted vent on the bonnet. I immediately pulled up and had a look at the engine, only to discover water sprayed over the spare tyre, radiator, air filter cover, and just about everywhere else. Of course, I phoned my Dad, the fourth emergency service

Bless him, he came down to help me and it took a while for us to work out what the problem was. Then it identified itself. Turned out to be the bleeder on the hose that goes to the heater. It wasn't sealing correctly due to it being over tightened by a ham-fisted owner at some point in the last 12 years. Anyway, we bandaged it up and I got back to my parents' place.

By now, it was New Years Day, and what better way to spend the first afternoon of 2005 than fixing a cooling system?! We did a proper job of bandaging it up, bleeding the system and getting it working. There weren't any leaks and I even had heat in the cabin! But whilst messing around there we found a breather pipe by the oil filler cap had perished.

So, due to Bank Holidays and whatnot, the soonest I could order new parts was 4 January. We'd already worked out that on the 903cc, the heater hose with the bleeder fitted is also the bottom hose - it's one great long length of rubber pipe! Predicting that this would be expensive, I raided the piggy bank again. My local friendly Fiat dealer got me the bottom hose, clips to fit it, bleeder, oil breather pipe, and the metal bit that goes inside it. And all for £75.34. I think I'm their favourite customer at the moment!

This afternoon we'll be playing with the cooling system again. But we just took off the air filter to have a look at the pipes and double check that I've got the correct ones before we drain it all, and we think that the cold starting problem has revealed itself.

To make sure screws weren't dropped down the carb, I pulled out the choke. Only, the flaps on the carb didn't close. Turned out to be an acutator arm on the side that has come out of it's fitting. A quick squirt of Castrol Everyman oil and the spring on the arm was freed up and working again. Hurrah That should have fixed the cold starting then. The plan is to have the bottom hose changed today, then all should be well for my Panda

Sorry about the long post - thank you for your time

 

[PandaManPaul]

All is not well for my Panda

Drained the system into a large bowl, took off the bottom hose, and as we were studying the new hose and comparing diameter and the like, I saw a small split in the new hose. By now, the local friendly Fiat dealer had closed for the weekend.

So we re-fitted the old one and bled the system. All was going well and we went for a three mile ride to test that things were how they should be. It wasn't until we got back home that there was a tremendous amount of steam. One of the pipes from a junction on the old bottom hose had perished. Fortunately, the defect was at the end, so it was cut off and the hose was re-fitted.

Went out again on a different route for about three miles. Again, no steam until we got back home, but a quick investigation revealed this to be what had previously spilt on the engine just evaporating, so there was no cause for concern.

To be on the safe side, we went out again for a few miles. She was running perfectly, pulling strongly, and I even had heat in the cabin. It was all a bit too good to be true.

Got back home, and as I was reversing on to the drive, there was a terrible clattering sound and an enormous amount of steam coming out of the exhaust. As we removed the radiator cap, the pressure behind it was phenominal. All symptoms point to cylinder head gasket failure

We're going to have a proper look tomorrow morning.

 

[Harllequin]

That does not bode well

Still on the up side you get to tinker a bit more

Good luck

 

[PandaManPaul]

Thanks for the replies.

I will indeed be tinkering over the coming months. I've decided to take my much loved Panda off the road until we've fixed her and make this a restoration project. I'm never going to sell her.

 

[pandafan]

Hi Pandaman,
I'm not familiar with your particular engie I'm afraid, but i have a complete headset for a 965 Panda engine, New.
Any use ?

 

[PandaManPaul]

Hi Pandafan,

Thank-you for your kind offer

Unfortunately, that's a different one than required for the 903, but thanks anyway

 

[PandaManPaul]

It's now officially off the road

Will fix her when the weather picks up though. I'll keep you updated...