Technical Front Swivels

[GBGraham]

Just a tad confused (again). the rubber boot on the top swivel has some perishing so I ordered new top and bottom swivels which were under different part numbers by the supplier (Oldtimer Shop) but once arrived they are both showing the same manufacturers part no. Teknovam 7922.
So my question is for anyone that is in the know, are they different or not?
Also in the photo which I am taking as original because it's riveted, does anyone know what is the hex in the top is, original or added as a mod?

 

[bugsymike]

Don't know if top and bottom different, but on Ladas in early 70s with same 124 Fiat type suspension the hex bolt was for a grease nipple.

 

[GBGraham]

Don't know if top and bottom different, but on Ladas in early 70s with same 124 Fiat type suspension the hex bolt was for a grease nipple.

Cheer #bugsymike, they do look identical to me, there was 4 cents difference in price but one did have a bigger box so maybe that is where the price difference is
I did ask about grease nipples in another thread but only got reprimanded for reusing Haynes terminology for swivels and never really got a straight answer about grease nipples
I won't bother drilling and taping the new swivels, I'll will have probably met my demise before they need any lube

 

[bugsymike]

Cheer #bugsymike, they do look identical to me, there was 4 cents difference in price but one did have a bigger box so maybe that is where the price difference is
I did ask about grease nipples in another thread but only got reprimanded for reusing Haynes terminology for swivels and never really got a straight answer about grease nipples
I won't bother drilling and taping the new swivels, I'll will have probably met my demise before they need any lube

Mind you if they are Lada Russian copies badged as Fiat like some ignition switches etc. online, you may still out live them.

 

[GBGraham]

Okay folks, I have replaced one of the top swivels and they are different in sizes, the *outer race housing for the top swivel is 4mm smaller in diameter to fit the arm aperture. So in theory looking at these I suppose the top one would fit the lower swivel but not as a vice versa.
*apologies to those concerned if this is the wrong terminology

 

[bugsymike]

That makes sense with most of the loading on the bottom swivel suspension joint.
If they don't outlast you, at least with them being bolt on now you will have an easier job.

 

[GBGraham]

That makes sense with most of the loading on the bottom swivel suspension joint.
If they don't outlast you, at least with them being bolt on now you will have an easier job.

Bloody hell #bugsymike I'll be very annoyed if I have to change them again, one down and three to go

 

[bugsymike]

Bloody hell #bugsymike I'll be very annoyed if I have to change them again, one down and three to go

How long are you planning on hanging around?

 

[124BC1]

Just a tad confused (again). the rubber boot on the top swivel has some perishing so I ordered new top and bottom swivels which were under different part numbers by the supplier (Oldtimer Shop) but once arrived they are both showing the same manufacturers part no. Teknovam 7922.
So my question is for anyone that is in the know, are they different or not?
---------------------------what is the hex in the top is, original or added as a mod?

The original ball joints on the early Coupes had a separate rubber boot attached to a sheet metal plate so, in theory, the boot alone could be changed and the joint re-used if unworn (a bit of a faff though as the rivets had to be drilled out anyway and the ball joint refitted using bolts and nuts).

The top and bottom ball joints are different - if you consult your Haynes manual , Suspension and Steering chapter, (p.170 in my manual), you'll find Fig. 11.3. Section of L.H. front wheel and suspension and you can examine the cross sectional view of both ball joints.
Because of how the suspension is loaded in use, the top ball joint ball pin is mainly being pushed up against the top plate of the ball joint, whereas the lower ball joint pin is mainly being pulled out of the ball joint - this difference in direction of main loading requires different methods of construction.
The 'top-hat' protrusion of the original bottom ball joints housed, iirc, a rubber spacer to take up any slight play and also prevent rattling if the wheel drops suddenly, e.g. into a pothole, when the ball joint pin is pulled downwards.
When road-testing the car, this rattle over uneven surfaces is a good clue that one or both of the bottom ball joints are worn...

Being unable to see the construction details inside the new ball joints, (without possibly X-raying them?) I'd 'play it safe', return the ball joints and source ones that match the originals. Alternatively, I might use 2 of the new ones on the top A arms but not on the bottom A Arms.
Other European 124 parts suppliers list the correct pattern ball joints at reasonable cost e.g. https://www.fiatparts.de

I agree with @bugsymike the hex is a blanking pug to allow the fitting of a grease nipple (I'm not sure why Fiat didn't fit grease nipples in the 1st place, possibly it was to prevent water ingress?). I always drilled and tapped any replacement ball joints that came without provision for greasing - if kept regularly greased the ball joints, even possibly inferior replacements, will likely last a very long time, plus the extra grease will hopefully help to keep water out. Often new replacement joints have little grease inside from new, any water that get in causes the ball joint pin to rust which will accelerate wear on it's seating/cup.