Technical Fitting nosejob diesel engine into early 105JTD

[Michael Spinks]

Does anyone know if the later nosejob engines will fit and early 105jtd and/or if any of the parts (doors, seats, speedo wiper motors etc) can be used from these late models in the early ones?
Mike

 

[varesecrazy]

Motor will probably bolt in.. but may be complocated wiring.. and fuelling for the higher outputs.

 

[Michael Spinks]

Aah yes, I forgot about the fueling aspect. I suppose it depends on whether the hardware is the same and it's just down to ECU programming or whether the hardware (ie injector type) is different.

 

[widemouthfrog]

The earlier squarenoses (nose jobs) have the same engines as the later roundnoses - a JTD 115 with single-jet injectors. Later squarenoses have the Multijet engines which use a different (multi-jet, funny enough) injector and slightly more power (120), so I'd imagine their ECUs would be quite different.

The early squarenoses were a bit of a mish mash all round. As well as the engines, they share their interior colour and trim with the later roundnoses. I don't think they got their full mk2 makeover until around 2006, at a guess.

 

[MultipleMultis]

I have a low milage 2010 nose job just back on road, that we got as a non runner and a high milage 2004 115 JTD well maintained but sorned mk1 sat next to it on drive ... I am not sure which we will keep long term, but that is another story...

So far noticed
Air bag wiring connectors are different.
Fuel filter is different in later ones.
Seats look the same. I have not tried moving one between the other but would bet they do. Newer ones are softer, always found mk1s very comfy though especially long journeys.
Windscreen wiper arms are different, I ordered mk2 wrong but was lucky to have clips spare from something else to get them fitted.

Driving MK2 at night just feels like you are in the MK1 everything in same places.

Multijet 120 is a bit different. ECU is different. It has particle filter and more stuff to go wrong. It squirts diesel in twice per bang rather than once, it only has the one injector. If you fit one without DPF then need it deleting on the ECU which will cost to get programmed. Exhaust might not fit ? DPF has an LED on dash too.

ECU is linked to immobiliser and the transponder thing on key. ECU sits above the aux belt area - so wiring location of ECU is different too. Point is may need to rewire the loom to fit ... not sure where it is on the 105 and 115. Keys seem the same.

115 JTD sounds a simpler bet as WMF advises.
Perhaps ask a company that does mapping if the 105 and 115 have the same electronic gubins ?

 

[widemouthfrog]

I think the (coded) Multijet injectors have more than one (microscopic) hole in their tip through which the fuel is squirted - not sure how many 'more than one' is though. The original JTD (uncoded) injectors only have one hole.

I still don't think I've explained that very well....


Uncoded injectors can be swapped between engines without needing to tell the ECU of the change. They just work. Coded injectors have an individual number 'tag' written on them, which has to be logged with the ECU to tell it how it should be fuelled. I think MultiECUScan can be used for this, but I've never had the need to find out!

 

[Michael Spinks]

Thanks for all the replies, it would seem that only the very early facelifts are truly compatible. I have had a lot of experience with the later model type injectors (not on Fiats) and can confirm that they need the individual injector correction codes programmed (CIIi) into the ECU (which must be the late type) to work correctly.
The latter plus the DPF precludes easy fitting, so I won't be doing that.
My dilemma is the looming strict emission testing with our oldest JTD 105, which has done a cool 500 000 ks and still runs like a watch. However, it smokes in the morning and the compression is low, indicating piston rings (minimum) possibly pistons rebores new valves and seats plus anything else under the hood - aaaargh!!
I have no idea if a replacement engine from a breaker would be any better, it's impossible to know until it's too late (ie fitted and running) and paid for, hence the hesitation.
The rest of the car is really solid, so scrapping is out of the question for the moment.
Cheers everyone!

Mik from Franceland