General Fiat stilo clutch

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General Fiat stilo clutch

NebulaStilo

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Hi

Which clutch brand comes fitted original in Fiat Stilo?

I'm looking at buying a LUK clutch kit for the car.
 
That era Fiat also used Borg and Beck.

Luk isn't too shabby; it's owned by Valeo as a "budget" brand and according to random Forum posts, the parts in the kits are often marked "Valeo" anyway.

Valeo has smoother than Borg & Beck, which could be a bit grabby... but I think B&B was bought by Firstline in Oxfordshire not too long ago, so they might have changed the friction material they use etc... but in any case won't be too shabby.


Ralf S.
 
Hi.

Thanks for the answer.

Ralf, I don't know if you remember this, I had/have a loss of power fiat 1.6 stilo. We used to be back and forth.

So my fiat has been standing for a while, I put her one side when slipping clutch symptoms showed up. I drive her now and then. I've noticed though that if you put your foot down, she picks up revs slowly, then after a second she springs to life and revs up and will surge sometimes like a boat sailing over a wave. Then the clutch will slip.

I think she has worn valve seals, she chows oil, she burns it after you coast in gear and then floor her. Blue smoke then smoking dissapears and accelerate in traffic then she smokes a bit. She don't smoke continuously. Sometimes,especially when it's cold and car was standing overnight, she will be very responsive and wants to go no issue but the clutch not allowing all power to the wheels.

I did mention before, she revs but not to full potential, she only revs up to around 5500rpm.

I sometimes get a p0638 and limp mode. Also a p1687 but seldom. These codes I think is just a gremlin because data from Obd2 shows that when driving her throttle body will be at a constant.
Also, you can hear she revs up, she does sometimes have that hesitation/surge when accelerating. But doesn't sound or seem like a fueling problem. CEL is off. It would Rev smoothly. Not a sign of misfire. Sometimes she will be abit unresponsive and miss once or twice ,mostly after traffic. But a good/hard drives seems to clear it.

I wanna know is it valve seals (can I use the seal rejuvenator.
Or is it a fueling issue,
Or is it my warn clutch that causing loss of power, slow responding acceleration.


Thanks
 
Yes, I remember your car. It's managed to survive this far, so it's not doing too bad.. :D

There's a few problems by the sound of it, which makes it tricky to work out whether some of the symptoms are caused by one of the problems, or if there's a separate problem for each symptom.

From what you described;

1) It does sound like there is a "cylinder" problem. If you do a compression test you should get a series of readings that are consistent across all cylinders. If you have a cylinder or two that have a lower reading than the others then they have a problem. If you carry out a wet test on these cylinders and you get >10% increase in compression, then that cylinder has bore or piston/ring problems. If the wet test gives <10% variation, then you have a valve or valve seat problem.

Worn seals don't affect the compression ratio, so if your engine checks out on compression but you're burning oil, then you could still have worn seals. The easiest way to check for leaking seals is to take the cover off and visually inspect the seals... or take the plugs out and see which one is oily... or put an endoscope into the spark plug holes to see which ones are the most sooty.

If you have two adjacent cylinders with low compression, that are both oily, then you could have a head gasket problem, leaking oil into one or both of those cylinders.

I remember (I think) that you carried out a compression test. Do you have the values for each cylinder?


2a) If you have oil being drawn into the cylinder then that causes problems, and not just for Greta Thunberg. If the car is constantly sucking oil, then it'll try to burn it. The affected cylinder(s) will run rich so the engine will "race" or idle funny or hesitate under light loads. It'll run well initially, when you boot it, since a transition/accelerating engine wants to be rich, but it won't rev out because it's too rich. But it's too rich with a fuel (the oil) that burns slow and "cold". It's actually lean with the petrol because the lambda is detecting that it's rich and will be telling the ECU to back off the mixture.

Oil burn also eventually knackers your lambda sensors, since they don't really like oily soot. A knackered lambda is not going to solve the fuelling issues better than a working lambda.

How much oil is your car using, every 1000kms for example.?

2b) If you just have a valve stem "seep" then that oil might make the car awkward to start and idle, until it's burnt off but then it should behave reasonably normally, depending on how bad the valve seal leak is.

3) Valve seal restorer *might* work if the leak is a small one caused just by hardened seals. If the seals are physically damaged (pieces missing) or the oil burn is something else, then the answer is "no".

As a simple test, you could put some restorer in there (cheap and simple test) to see what happens. If it reduces the oil burn then that might sort out some of the other issues.. in which case, even if the other problems come back again later, you'll know that the oil burn is causing the problems and a new set of valve seals will sort it for good. If the seal restorer stops the smoke but that doesn't solve the other problems.. then the other problems are something else (although if the oil is killing the lambda sensor etc. it's still the chief culprit).

4) Clutch slip.. agreed that it sounds like clutch slip. I would sort out the main problem which is potentially a failed head gasket and/or moderate valve/seal problem first, since if you know what that is, then you can work out how to fix it. If you decide that the engine is too knackered to fix it (e.g you decide to put a transplant in there) then you can fit the new clutch when you do that, not before.

5) The other sensor errors *could* be a result of the commotion inside the ECU, trying to work out what's going on and coming up with "out of range" errors/readings... so these might be solved if you discover you have a serious oil burn problem and fix it. Some of the sensors could obviously be affected by the engine's problems (soot and oil where there shouldn't be any).


Ralf S.
 
Yes, I remember your car. It's managed to survive this far, so it's not doing too bad.. :D

There's a few problems by the sound of it, which makes it tricky to work out whether some of the symptoms are caused by one of the problems, or if there's a separate problem for each symptom.

From what you described;

1) It does sound like there is a "cylinder" problem. If you do a compression test you should get a series of readings that are consistent across all cylinders. If you have a cylinder or two that have a lower reading than the others then they have a problem. If you carry out a wet test on these cylinders and you get >10% increase in compression, then that cylinder has bore or piston/ring problems. If the wet test gives <10% variation, then you have a valve or valve seat problem.

Worn seals don't affect the compression ratio, so if your engine checks out on compression but you're burning oil, then you could still have worn seals. The easiest way to check for leaking seals is to take the cover off and visually inspect the seals... or take the plugs out and see which one is oily... or put an endoscope into the spark plug holes to see which ones are the most sooty.

If you have two adjacent cylinders with low compression, that are both oily, then you could have a head gasket problem, leaking oil into one or both of those cylinders.

I remember (I think) that you carried out a compression test. Do you have the values for each cylinder?


2a) If you have oil being drawn into the cylinder then that causes problems, and not just for Greta Thunberg. If the car is constantly sucking oil, then it'll try to burn it. The affected cylinder(s) will run rich so the engine will "race" or idle funny or hesitate under light loads. It'll run well initially, when you boot it, since a transition/accelerating engine wants to be rich, but it won't rev out because it's too rich. But it's too rich with a fuel (the oil) that burns slow and "cold". It's actually lean with the petrol because the lambda is detecting that it's rich and will be telling the ECU to back off the mixture.

Oil burn also eventually knackers your lambda sensors, since they don't really like oily soot. A knackered lambda is not going to solve the fuelling issues better than a working lambda.

How much oil is your car using, every 1000kms for example.?

2b) If you just have a valve stem "seep" then that oil might make the car awkward to start and idle, until it's burnt off but then it should behave reasonably normally, depending on how bad the valve seal leak is.

3) Valve seal restorer *might* work if the leak is a small one caused just by hardened seals. If the seals are physically damaged (pieces missing) or the oil burn is something else, then the answer is "no".

As a simple test, you could put some restorer in there (cheap and simple test) to see what happens. If it reduces the oil burn then that might sort out some of the other issues.. in which case, even if the other problems come back again later, you'll know that the oil burn is causing the problems and a new set of valve seals will sort it for good. If the seal restorer stops the smoke but that doesn't solve the other problems.. then the other problems are something else (although if the oil is killing the lambda sensor etc. it's still the chief culprit).

4) Clutch slip.. agreed that it sounds like clutch slip. I would sort out the main problem which is potentially a failed head gasket and/or moderate valve/seal problem first, since if you know what that is, then you can work out how to fix it. If you decide that the engine is too knackered to fix it (e.g you decide to put a transplant in there) then you can fit the new clutch when you do that, not before.

5) The other sensor errors *could* be a result of the commotion inside the ECU, trying to work out what's going on and coming up with "out of range" errors/readings... so these might be solved if you discover you have a serious oil burn problem and fix it. Some of the sensors could obviously be affected by the engine's problems (soot and oil where there shouldn't be any).


Ralf S.
Thanks Ralf.

Yeah to my surprise she has last pretty long and now is my daily driver. Check out her new sneakers. Got them for a steal so I had to take them.

Anyway, let me mention that she will rev when I want to floor her. She will rev up, the rpm speed to what power is being delivered to the road is not proportionate. Which to my knowledge points to a bad clutch. When she revs up as we pulling, sometimes she won't do that slight surge or hesitation. It's like a rocking boat but slight. Sometimes she won't do that. But the power isn't being delivered fully to the road. I read that the springs in the pressure plate or something like that could cause the surge. Like the clutch doesn't grab right or something like that. 😂

My ignition barrel I think I mentioned before was ****ed. I took the switch at the back out. I then had a new key made and put it on the fob. Turns the barrel but there's a plastic part that went missing so I can't reassemble 😂😭

For a long time I've been starting her with key in ignition and turning the switch, ign on - activate starter ie 'start' then turn the switch back one click. Another click back switches ign off ie switching off the engine. I noticed that if you move that switch wires when you switch on the ignition, the fuel pump drops pressure and the lights will dim on dash. She's obviously not meant to be started like this so it could be taking a toll because if I start her after she does what I said now, she starts and then she's in limp mode. Code that always comes up is p0638. If it doesn't drop voltage and the lights don't dim then she won't go into limp. So that obviously needs to be sorted out with a new barrel.

I'm trying to sort her out and all the previous owners negligence is showing now and frankly it's pissing me off now🤣🤣🤣
 

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Yes, I remember your car. It's managed to survive this far, so it's not doing too bad.. :D

There's a few problems by the sound of it, which makes it tricky to work out whether some of the symptoms are caused by one of the problems, or if there's a separate problem for each symptom.

From what you described;

1) It does sound like there is a "cylinder" problem. If you do a compression test you should get a series of readings that are consistent across all cylinders. If you have a cylinder or two that have a lower reading than the others then they have a problem. If you carry out a wet test on these cylinders and you get >10% increase in compression, then that cylinder has bore or piston/ring problems. If the wet test gives <10% variation, then you have a valve or valve seat problem.

Worn seals don't affect the compression ratio, so if your engine checks out on compression but you're burning oil, then you could still have worn seals. The easiest way to check for leaking seals is to take the cover off and visually inspect the seals... or take the plugs out and see which one is oily... or put an endoscope into the spark plug holes to see which ones are the most sooty.

If you have two adjacent cylinders with low compression, that are both oily, then you could have a head gasket problem, leaking oil into one or both of those cylinders.

I remember (I think) that you carried out a compression test. Do you have the values for each cylinder?


2a) If you have oil being drawn into the cylinder then that causes problems, and not just for Greta Thunberg. If the car is constantly sucking oil, then it'll try to burn it. The affected cylinder(s) will run rich so the engine will "race" or idle funny or hesitate under light loads. It'll run well initially, when you boot it, since a transition/accelerating engine wants to be rich, but it won't rev out because it's too rich. But it's too rich with a fuel (the oil) that burns slow and "cold". It's actually lean with the petrol because the lambda is detecting that it's rich and will be telling the ECU to back off the mixture.

Oil burn also eventually knackers your lambda sensors, since they don't really like oily soot. A knackered lambda is not going to solve the fuelling issues better than a working lambda.

How much oil is your car using, every 1000kms for example.?

2b) If you just have a valve stem "seep" then that oil might make the car awkward to start and idle, until it's burnt off but then it should behave reasonably normally, depending on how bad the valve seal leak is.

3) Valve seal restorer *might* work if the leak is a small one caused just by hardened seals. If the seals are physically damaged (pieces missing) or the oil burn is something else, then the answer is "no".

As a simple test, you could put some restorer in there (cheap and simple test) to see what happens. If it reduces the oil burn then that might sort out some of the other issues.. in which case, even if the other problems come back again later, you'll know that the oil burn is causing the problems and a new set of valve seals will sort it for good. If the seal restorer stops the smoke but that doesn't solve the other problems.. then the other problems are something else (although if the oil is killing the lambda sensor etc. it's still the chief culprit).

4) Clutch slip.. agreed that it sounds like clutch slip. I would sort out the main problem which is potentially a failed head gasket and/or moderate valve/seal problem first, since if you know what that is, then you can work out how to fix it. If you decide that the engine is too knackered to fix it (e.g you decide to put a transplant in there) then you can fit the new clutch when you do that, not before.

5) The other sensor errors *could* be a result of the commotion inside the ECU, trying to work out what's going on and coming up with "out of range" errors/readings... so these might be solved if you discover you have a serious oil burn problem and fix it. Some of the sensors could obviously be affected by the engine's problems (soot and oil where there shouldn't be any).


Ralf S.
HI Ralf,

With regards to clutch slipping.

I've noticed she slips only when car is hot. She drives without slippage but sluggish when car is cold or stands overnight or long periods. As she gets hot she starts to slip.
Sluggish could still be clutch since(correct if I'm wrong) a worn clutch won't transfer all power delivered by engine to the gearbox. Even when she slips, there's no misfire, the engine itself revs up pretty fine. Sometimes though at a constant rpm even when in neutral standing still, she will smoothly Rev up and down.slight drops. Not a misfire, it's smooth. Best I can explain.

If you got advice I'll greatly appreciate it.
 
HI Ralf,

With regards to clutch slipping.

I've noticed she slips only when car is hot. She drives without slippage but sluggish when car is cold or stands overnight or long periods. As she gets hot she starts to slip.
Sluggish could still be clutch since(correct if I'm wrong) a worn clutch won't transfer all power delivered by engine to the gearbox. Even when she slips, there's no misfire, the engine itself revs up pretty fine. Sometimes though at a constant rpm even when in neutral standing still, she will smoothly Rev up and down.slight drops. Not a misfire, it's smooth. Best I can explain.

If you got advice I'll greatly appreciate it.

Clutches slip more when they're hot, as a combination of the friction material losing some of its grabbiness when its hot, and because the hydraulic fluid in the slave cylinder expands and tends to reduce pressure on the clutch (the same as if the clutch pedal is pushed in a bit).

Check that the fluid reservoir isn't too full. There is a "MAX" mark which leaves a little space for fluid expansion. It may also be worth bleeding the clutch, since air in the slave somewhere might be preventing the fluid expansion back up the system.

But these are "keeping it going a bit longer" hacks. The clutch shouldn't slip under any circumstances, this side of a race track, so changing the clutch is the ultimate fix.


Ralf S.
 
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