Seicento Fiat Seicento Sporting key/ignition problem

[supermonkeyballs]

Hello Team.

Little bit stuck and looking for help.

I have had a Fiat Seicento sporting.

I have had it for over three years now without a single problem. Its a lovely car and very cheap to run. It's only done 32,000 miles and its a Y plate.

You see I went to Tesco's on Tuesday, all problem free, returned to the car to leave and it wouldn't turn over/start.

By this I mean, the key would operate as it should in the barrel, it would fit in and turn as it should, the immobiliser yellow light goes off on the dash, so the chip in the key is talking to the E.C.U as it should, the the fuel pump makes the right noise, but as you turn the key to the right fully as if to start the car, there is no ignition or in fact anything past the fuel pump doing its thing, nothing happens, I.E no power to the starter motor, so to start with I though the starter motor had died because the car bumped straight away and drove home fine. It will happily sit on idle no problems for ever and a day, so it's not timing or fuel. Just ignition of the engine.

So Wednesday I jacked the car up and hit the starter motor. Whacked it a few times with a rubber hammer (not a lot of space down there) and got in the driver seat and the car started fine first time.

Not being one for having the problem hanging over my motoring I brought a new starter motor straight away.

Now here's the thing.

I fitted the new starter motor straight away that same day. Got in thinking all would be well and nothing.

Exactly the same problem as before.

Clearly me hitting it and it firing was just luck, or so I though.

So I got my brother over and we started to do all the normal stuff to make sure.

The battery has loads of power, (even under load) the earths all seem good. (The ones I can find). I have tried firing the engine when it's hooked up to my Scooby which is pumping out over 13 volts so I don't think it's power lose from the battery.

Then as I was sat there thinking about what it could be, I turned the key very, very slowly in the barrel and it worked.

So the new problem is that I have found that if I rotate the key very slowly in the barrel the car will sometimes ignite the engine as if no problem exists.

This method though is very hit and miss. Sometimes it will ignite other times nothing.

The key does turn the yellow key light for the immobiliser off every time and it doesn't feel lose in the barrel.

My question is, clearly the barrel is what tells/sends the pulse to the starter motor to actually rotate and start the engine.

Can you test these ignition barrels?

If I have an earthing problem, will the car fire at all? Or can it still fire on the odd occasion with a crapy earth?

I'm assuming that when the key is turned that something inside the barrel makes a connection. I'm wondering because the window of moment of the key moving into its magical ignition spot is so small to actually get it to fire, is it a connection problem within the barrel or is it the pulse being sent to the starter where the problem lies?

My brother has also pointed out that sometimes if you hold the key all the way to the right after slowly turning it, you will think that it's not hit "the sweet spot" so you go past the point which it sometimes fire on, so you keep going all the way to the right with the key until it won't turn anymore, you keep then keep it there for a couple of seconds and all of a sudden it will fire. Almost like it's had to built up to wanting to do it.

This method is of course hit and miss and it's getting less prone to igniting now "under the slow key method"

Any help at all would be good as with Christmas here I already spent money on a starter motor I didn't probably need :-(

Thanks for your time.

Rich
Cornwall.
UK


P.S



I have recently ran a reversing sensor from the back light 12 volt bulb, can't see why that would change anything but still.

And I also took the dash surround of today and tried the key trick, as I read that making sure the two plug are in the back of barrel can help.

When the surround was off as I turn the key I can hear what I can only describe as clinking from in and around the barrel as you rotate the key slowly. This of course may be normal. But it could also be arking of electricity, but then I imagine there is arking going on as you turn the key as new points of contact are being made. Either way I'm still clueless of how to proceed. I don't really want to buy as new set of keys battle and E.C.U unless it's really that. Thanks again.

 

[fingers99]

The vital earth (as far as the starter motor is concerned) is the one from the top of the gearbox to the passenger side (assuming RHD).

You might test it by using a single jump lead from battery negative to a solid, metallic, part of the gearbox.

This is much more likely than an issue with the ignition switch.

 

[luisgmsousa]

Hi mate
I'm newbie here (country and forum) but I can share with you my experience in my previous car - Fiat Punto MK1 75 ELX
I had it for many many years with a start button fitted by electrician.
The key had same problem as you described. Best way to test it is access to the ignition wiring and try to make a start from there. Put the key in MAR position because of the immobilizer, and then go for the contact in wires.
I also have an 1987 BMW e30 318i and it has the same problem. On hot days, I had to make the start movement in ignition at least a dozen times before I was able to start the car!

If this seems to be the problem, either you may install a new ignition barrel or a start button.

Cheers

 

[blu73]

does sound like the earth that fingers suggests to me.. not an immediately obvious earth either... the jump lead test will tell you if its this or not. Try that and if it starts take the earth lead off and clean both ends of it and where it contacts with the box and body. Let us know how you get on.

 

[supermonkeyballs]

Hi all, firstly guys thank you for your advice.

I tried the jump lead test from the gear box to the battery negative and nothing.

I then replaced the battery with another battery I have which was known to be good. I just wanted to make sure and still nothing.

I was then going to start testing the wiring from the rear of the ignition back but the key whilst turning it did something quite strange. More so than the odd start. I know the barrel was doing random things but it began firing in the stop position.

By this I mean I turned the key all the way to the right trying to get it to fire and nothing and then on the turn back leftwards, as if to pull the key out of the barrel, whilst it hit the stop position, the engine fired, and then continued to do this, I then came to the conclusion that the internals of the barrels were clearly not where they should of been or it had issues from with hence it only firing in random locations of the barrel.

So i decided to removed the barrel from the equation by wiring in a push button start in.

It really wasn't the hard.

Got a 12v push button switch from the local hardware store (in the marine section) cut the red and brown wires and spliced them in.

Long story short it works and it was the ignition, which I got around by fitting a push button.

Thanks for your time and help with this.

Rich.