Fiat punto rally car project

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Fiat punto rally car project

Arw

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Our 1.2 punto is coming to the end of its life and will most likely fail its next mot and will be replaced.
We love this car and think we will convert it into a rally car
What engine should I be getting for it?
I was thinking of the 1.4 and tune it up?
Is there any other engines that would be better?
Is there any old threads of similar builds to look at?
Thanks
 
Our 1.2 punto is coming to the end of its life and will most likely fail its next mot and will be replaced.
We love this car and think we will convert it into a rally car
What engine should I be getting for it?
I was thinking of the 1.4 and tune it up?
Is there any other engines that would be better?
Is there any old threads of similar builds to look at?
Thanks
don‘t Rally cars need to be road worthy ?
they also need to be structurally sound so if the car is going to fail it’s MOT for rust then it’s not going to work as a rally car
 
Yes rally cars need to pass the mot, our punto will pass again if we spend enough on it but we will be getting a new car to replace it anyway.
 
Yes rally cars need to pass the mot, our punto will pass again if we spend enough on it but we will be getting a new car to replace it anyway.
I think the point is, if you're happy to spend a lot of money on the car to keep getting it through an MOT then why not just pay the money and carry on using the car as before.

If you want a rally car then you may be better using a better base, if there is one thing everyone on this forum will tell you, once a fiat (especially a punto) has the dreaded tin worm, you'll spend your life chasing the rust with a welding torch, and we all know what kills puntos is rust.

The other issue is the punto doesn't lend itself well to engine swaps. Its a fairly small engine bay so shoe-horning a different engine in, can require a lot of work and skill. Depending which model of punto it is, you may find it more cost effective to find a Punto with an already powerful engine, something like the 1.8 HGT in the older mk2 and mk2b cars or an Abarth model in the Grande and Evo. which would not have the rust problems of the older Mk2 models. a proper Engine swap can cost thousands.

It's always a nice idea but often the practicalities are just not there.
If you have a bit of land, you can hoon around it in it till the wheel fall off, that's probably the best and most appropriate use of an old punto which has reached the end of its life and won't pass its next MOT.
 
We won’t continue running our old punto as it’s surplus to requirements and is been replaced with a new pickup in may 2023.
Its purely sentimental and it would be a good winter project I’m very interested in
For context I’m a farmer with huge workshops and fabrication experience, the punto is merely just an old car that never failed the mot and we run new cars for our businesses. I was hoping to find someone with experience in a punto converted into a rally car
 
Stick the old Punto on a chassis that has not only strong running gear (plenty of 4x4 options straight from oriental concessioners) but short enough to fit under.

You can fabricate, so joining the two back together to get a forever rally type build is possible.

Until you roll it that is😧😧😧😧
 
On the MOT front a 'Rally' does not have to have an MOT as such UNLESS it is doing public road stages where the roads are not closed to the public and the rally car has to comply with speed limits, road markings, lights, number plates etc. This is call "Road Rallying". Focus is on naviagation, exact timing, etc.

"Stage Rallying" is on closed roads, forest tracks, race track sections, etc. Here the organisers run they own scruitineering requirments which also cover "safe vehicle" aspects and well as more formal Class requirments etc.

Some rallying involves mixed stages of both "Road Rallying" and "Special Stage". Here vehicles must comply with MOT and scrutineering requirements.

Vehicles with no MOT, insurance, tax etc. have to be trailered / transported (dollies & towing are NOT legal as car is in contact with public road) to any Stage rally.

For anybody interested in any form of motor sport then the RAC Blue Book is the UK bible and an excellent read:

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-con...-2023-COMPLETE-Version-15-20-April-2023-1.pdf

The Blue Book cover all the basic safety and technical build requirements for the various classes/types of motor sport.

The goto website for motorsport in the UK is:

https://www.motorsportuk.org/
 
My bud Jimmie McD used to road rally around east Renfrewshire/ North Ayrshires roads and lanes. But even though he was quite competitive, he reckons the cash to compete was on the rise.
.So he (and his line of prepared transportation) left the club and started to drift his autos.

As cost was less prohibitive. And he eventually has left this (after about fifteen years) and is now back doing one day trials on his Motocross bikes.

Well Jimmie and his son Kyle now. As along with his first love B.M.X of almost thirty years ago, he is back on a saddle.
 
Motorsport is not cheap, even in your standard road car for Sprint. Track days are popular but now very expensive depending on circuit. e.g. Goodwood is £130 for half day (3 runs of 15 minutes). £250 full day (6 runs of 15 minutes). Now an accepted target time for a competive experienced driver and fast road car is 100 seconds a lap. Others will be more around the 105 to 110 seconds per laps. So the best you will get per 15 minutes is 8 laps (1st & last will be slower) or down to 7 or possible 6 laps. Call it £19 per lap.

Some track days are cheaper. There are companies out there that arrange them. Typically still in the £150 to £300 for a full day and Open Pit Lane.

Sprinting and Hill Climbs are similary priced at around £20 per run/lap (two practice, two timed). £150 to £180 per event.

When you add helmet, fuel, tyres and brakes into the equation, plus travel cost to venue, then to be a regular participant in any form of motor sport the costs soon mount up.

A reasonable guide can be found here: https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/costs/

Rally Stage events can cost £500 to £600 each!
 
As I said not for the unemployed or very short on cash. Regardless of skill ( or lack of) Jimmie was in the top five - eight in most of his exploits on open fielding, gravel, forest track. In Drifting, he was just having fun.

And as you say costs do mount up quite quickly, a set of pre- worn tyres, studded or grass/rain, snow rubber can cost £600, a quarter on brand new.

A brand new set of MotoX tyres cost just £100. But broken limbs and fingers mount up too
 
Event organised by a motor club are potentially cheaper. In 1988 a test/trach day with the AROC or Lancia Motor Club was £25 and you generally got good track time / laps. In 1992/93 we were paying less than £50 and getting 140+ laps at Mallory Park, 120+ laps at Caslte Combe and 60+ laps at Goodwood.

Money and track time / return change with time. Wherever and when your start in motorsport the price will increase and generally your return (laps) will reduce. At some point you say enough is enough. For most people the sport is a passion and they want to be out and running as often as they can. When you are used to doing X events a year and look at dropping to Y events per year then your personal enjoyment bubble is burst. This is the time IMHO to say enough is enough because even if you can still afford to only do Y events per year you will hanker after and regret not having the X events.

Sponsorship:

There is another factor that can come into play and that is family. I was offered a turn up and drive race opportunity. All I would have to pay was my personal license and entry fees. Another where I would have to meet 1/3rd of car/running costs etc.. People called me a fool for turning these down but they would because they can't see the other side of the equation. If you are not professionaly employed as a job to drive (for a leading team/company) then in the lower series then this is done in your time and their money. So if a race goes badly due to car setup problems then they will be booking the next test day and you will have to take time off work (if you can). If your wife/family member is ill you just can't say "sorry can't attend today".

This is one reason why many of today's top motorsport drivers got/get into the sport at a young age. Mum and Dad supporting, no work / income commitments etc. If you did have to miss an event (for whatever reason) then M&D would willingly pick up the tab.

As they say it is fun whilst it lasts and that is a key point. It won't last forever but you should never look back but just remember and enjoy what you did do / achieve. I do as do others.
 
Would just add I've just watched the BBC "Born To Race" programme/video on News 24 tonight. I think it gives a good idea of how expensive motor sport is. Not just financialy but family and personal commitment. I'll admit these young guys and girls are heading for careers in motor sport. However the vast majority of others just enjoy and try to improve their low cost (????), lack fame and recognition in something they enjoy. Sadly it is expensive.

On the other hand we have young and older drivers who think they are great and try their luck on public roads where their talent (if they had any) runs out hopefully with no loss of life or damage to 3rd parties. 1st party asks for all they get! But that is another issue but also begs the question as to why there are no cheap opportunites to help these budding drivers out safely and protecting the public?

Well there was news on this front a while back and I don't know if it is still in operation. Some years back I think it was Sussex Police that would give young drivers penalties or put them on a driving course at a motor circuit. There they were taught not only normal road safe driving but opened their eyes to proper SAFE performance driving and the skills, control, temprement and RESPONSIBILY etc. I gather that most who went throught the course never offended again and many went on to enjoy SAFE and responsible motorsport.
 
Mk 2 Punto HGT is a stunning looking car far nicer than the Polo look-a-like Mk 2A. Swap the 1.8 for an Alfa 2.0 TS. Alternatively, get the Sporting and soup up the 1.4.
 
Remember the Fiat Challenge, got so expensive for ‘normal folk’ to compete that it ended up with little or no support as it priced itself out of the market…
Two reasons for this were the folk that could afford to buy a very competitive car ‘off the peg’ and the alienation (financially and sponsorship) of those that bought a cheap older car and did all the mods themselves. I’m not saying this was deliberate but it had the same results…
The second was that the races stopped being rally/track orientated to merely track, and a lot of those were down south, they were generally the last races and the crowds and sponsors disappeared after the main events and this further lead to the withering of those that went to see them specifically and the sponsors generally.
These issues also affected ‘club rallying’, I remember in the early eighties of a local club whereby two of the members turned up in audi Quattros and a couple with a brand spanking opel ascona whilst the majority of members had escorts, chevettes/kadettes, dolomite sprints, ladas with Lancia engines, a couple of 128s, old school Skodas, and a knackered austin Healy 3000
 
I remember the Fiat Challenge series.

Besides the points you mention there was also the "Italian Inter-marque" series and the still vibrant Alfa Romeo race series/challenge.

Both the Inter marque and AROC were always going to succeed on three counts (at least)

1) Potential numbers - Alfa + Lancia + Fiat + other Italian makes would and did exceed any Fiat only numbers
2) Others were already established with support and following AND more competitive racing groups
3) Calendar and Track opportunities are always very tight so the Fiat Challenge was never ever going to get any prime time at an affordable cost!

My advice / suggestion for anybody interested in motor sporting their car/themselves is search out your local motor club. Does not have to be Fiat or any other make. I would add that the decent clubs don't care what you drive. They just want supportive members, have some safe fun and all at an affordable price. Even some of the simplest? challenges can prove addictive and fun. e.g. 50m dash, brake & reverse into 90 degree bay, drive out and 50m dash to finish line. Or you can just enjoy a cross country orienteering timed navigation event. All of these in your standard road car!
 
I remember the Fiat Challenge series.

Besides the points you mention there was also the "Italian Inter-marque" series and the still vibrant Alfa Romeo race series/challenge.

Both the Inter marque and AROC were always going to succeed on three counts (at least)

1) Potential numbers - Alfa + Lancia + Fiat + other Italian makes would and did exceed any Fiat only numbers
2) Others were already established with support and following AND more competitive racing groups
3) Calendar and Track opportunities are always very tight so the Fiat Challenge was never ever going to get any prime time at an affordable cost!

My advice / suggestion for anybody interested in motor sporting their car/themselves is search out your local motor club. Does not have to be Fiat or any other make. I would add that the decent clubs don't care what you drive. They just want supportive members, have some safe fun and all at an affordable price. Even some of the simplest? challenges can prove addictive and fun. e.g. 50m dash, brake & reverse into 90 degree bay, drive out and 50m dash to finish line. Or you can just enjoy a cross country orienteering timed navigation event. All of these in your standard road car!
Yup, went to quite a few inter marque meets…thought it was still going but maybe I’ve been out of the loop far too long
Yes, clubs are best way of getting into or just supporting…there are always cliques, but many are just in for the laugh/craic and mutual interest
I did move more into the off-road scene and was always into military stuff, and the two do cross paths in strange fields with beer and curry and, of course, a shovel
 
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