Technical Fiat ducato 2.8i jtd not starting after winter

[Yorkysteve]

Hi I have a 2001 fiat ducato 2.8i jtd motorhome 2001 tried to start it after winter but engine turned over but not firing. I changed fuel filter but no fuel coming out of pipe. I checked the tank float pipes and no fuel coming from there when engine turns over and cannot locate fuel pump. It worked perfectly before winter but was left with a full tank of deisel over winter any ideas anyone. Thank you

 

[bugsymike]

Hi I have a 2001 fiat ducato 2.8i jtd motorhome 2001 tried to start it after winter but engine turned over but not firing. I changed fuel filter but no fuel coming out of pipe. I checked the tank float pipes and no fuel coming from there when engine turns over and cannot locate fuel pump. It worked perfectly before winter but was left with a full tank of deisel over winter any ideas anyone. Thank you

I am guessing you have a low pressure fuel pump in the tank, normally when you turn the ignition on you will hear a slight whine as the pump builds up pressure to deliver to the high pressure pump on the engine via a fuel filter.
If you are not hearing this noise I would check the fuses and relay related to this. If you have power there then the pump in the tank, usually held down by a large plastic nut would be my next thing to check. It works as the fuel gauge sensor and the low pressure pump is in it also.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for your reply but I looked at the fuel tank in the cab floor and all that was in there was a fuel sender, no pump but with 2 outlet pipes from it

 

[bugsymike]

Is your van definitely a 2.8JTD?
Normally there has to be some form of low pressure pump to supply the high pressure system.
Much older vehicles with the earlier Sofim engine had a lift pump, sometimes with a hand primer positioned on the casting that is bolted to the engine with six large bolts. This housing has the oil filter and cooler , the brake vacuum pump, the power steering pump, the normally Bosch injector pump and sometimes a mechanical low pressure pump.
I may be wrong but that was usually the 2.5 Sofim engines from around 1996 from my work on Iveco Daily's with the similar engine.
Here is an example as I mentioned. If not like this perhaps you have a separate electric pump in the fuel line from the tank.
As you can see on the engine below the bright red fuel line going to a mechanical low pressure fuel pump.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thanks for that on the wing panel it says 2.8idtd and on the side panel of the motorhome it says fiat maxi 2.8jtd but if it helps the fuel filter which ch I have chaged is located passenger side engine compartment behind air filter housing but the engine looks different to yours slightly not sure how to send photos on forum. Thank you

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for that on the wing panel it says 2.8idtd and on the side panel of the motorhome it says fiat maxi 2.8jtd but if it helps the fuel filter which ch I have chaged is located passenger side engine compartment behind air filter housing but the engine looks different to yours slightly not sure how to send photos on forum. Thank you

It was the oil filter housing that is on the engine , in both cases the fuel filter would be mounted on the bulkhead/body.
The 2.8idtd is pre common rail and the JTD is the later engine. As a guide the JTD has the injector pipes supplied from a "common rail" whereas the earlier design has four separate pipes going to the injector pump as you may see on the older 2.5 engine.
The engine in the photo I showed is for a Iveco Daily which is rear wheel drive, however the basic layout is the same.
Where it says "attach files" at the bottom of a thread, it should give you the opportunity to add your photos if you select the source.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you I will take some pics later and get back to you but maybe tomorrow but thank you for your help and will get pics on asap

 

[Communicator]

Thank you I will take some pics later and get back to you but maybe tomorrow but thank you for your help and will get pics on asap

@Yorkysteve ,

As @bugsymike has already posted a photo of a 2.8jtd, I will attach a photo of a 2.8jtd which has had some of the pipework and engine cover removed. In particular note the four injector cables in a clamp, immediately to the rear of the vehicle LHS engine lifting lug.

To enlarge on the questions regarding the engine model, the 2.8jtd was introduced in 2000, but due to the delays in motorhome conversion, and registration it is quite possible for a 2001 motorhome to be fitted with the earlier 2.8idTD engine.

 

[bugsymike]

Just to avoid confusion the engine I posted a photo of was the old 2.5 turbo known as a 2.5itid although from a Iveco Daily I think, before the 2.8JTD common rail version as correctly posted in @Communicator reply.
Some of the OP s confusion was his "wing panel it says 2.8idtd and on the side panel of the motorhome it says fiat maxi 2.8jtd" so as mentioned Motorhome builds are not necessarily accurate on engine version or indeed year of construction according to some posts.

 

[jackwhoo]

If there is no in tank pump or other lift pump then the injection pump is expected to draw the fuel all the way from the fuel tank.
With this older system it is not advisable
fit a new filter dry and not prime the fuel system before attempting to start engine.
A fully charged battery health battery is also required to start a diesel engine especially after a long period of "rest"

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for that but I disconnected one of the pipes from the fuel sender started the engine but no fuel coming out ot on fuel filter t when I disconnected the outlet pipe but there was fuel coming out in the first place

 

[Yorkysteve]

Going back to your suggestion should I try a full battery and disconnect the outlet pipe on fuel filter so filter should fill with fuel rather than it be pumped to injectors but I would have thought fuel should be coming out of the tank first

 

[jackwhoo]

Going back to your suggestion should I try a full battery and disconnect the outlet pipe on fuel filter so filter should fill with fuel rather than it be pumped to injectors but I would have thought fuel should be coming out of the tank first

If it is the no in tank pump or lift pump .....The injector pump "sucks" the fuel from the fuel tank via the fuel filter. If it is that system any pipe an be disconnected and when engine cranked no fuel will come out.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for that so all pipes are connected then just keep turning over the engine but would that get air in the system or should I disconnect the outlet pipe from fuel filter

 

[jackwhoo]

If it is the system with no in tank pump
The injector pump "sucks" on the pipe that goes to fuel filter , the fuel filter is connected to the fuel pick up pipe in the tank so the fuel is "sucked" to the fuel filter.

How many pipes on fuel filter head?
Pick of fuel filter head would be good.
Can you find a "squeeze bulb" fuel primer on vehicle?

It helps hugely to pre fill the fuel filter with diesel from a can if it's "system that sucks"

You have to be really careful cranking to not overheat and burn out starter motor , check the manual for cranking times and cool down times.

 

[jackwhoo]

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[jackwhoo]

That's a fuel primer bulb.
Very helpful

 

[jackwhoo]

It may not be fuel problem at all .

Does it have a factory imobiliser? If it does , does the imobiliser light go off?

 

[Yorkysteve]

2 pipes on fuel filter inlet and outlet could disconnect outlet first don't know if there is a fuel primer bulb I don't have a manual trid to buy one but cannot see one on ebay or Google. Is the immobiliser light orange I have not looked at that it all started first time before winter would leaving a full tank and not starting it over the winter affect it. Thank you all for trying to help by the way

 

[jackwhoo]

I cannot recall the ducato dashboard and it's lights from 23 years ago.

You did the correct thing leaving it with a full tank of fuel. It is possible that the fuel drained back from the filter to the tank during it's long rest.
The filter is certainly empty now as you fitted a new one.
To help greatly You could fit a primer bulb in a convenient place in the fuel line between the filter and injection pump but make sure the line is a secure fit to the primer , if not it will suck air in. Plus make sure the primer is sucking from the tank side and pumping toward injector pump. Once running leave the bulb in place.

To use primer turn ignition on and repeatedly squeeze bulb until it becomes firm. Have a rest , repeat. Then attempt start engine .

Please post photos requested by forum members

Rodents do like to chew wires look for any signs of rodent damage.