Tuning Fiat Barchtta engine tuning for more power

[DimeDimovski]

Fiat Barchetta is a gorgeous little car, fell in love with it as soon as I saw it parked outside a hotel in bright yellow. It being one of those roadsters from the 90s like the Miata it doesn't have much power (about 130hp). Is there anything I could do to the car for me to push power from it?

 

[s130]

It is my understanding that the Barchetta and Punto HGT 1.8 16V engines are difficult and expensive to get more power out of them with the normal engine tuning upgrades.

I think? the reasons are:

1) Already a well designed setup with regards to head flow also with variable cam timing
2) Fairly complex intake resonator to improve induction
3) Hitachi Engine ECU is not really tuneable

To get any real increase one would have to probably go down the "low" to "mild" turbo route and also have a completely different ECU and possibly new injectors.

All very expensive.

Here is an old thread on a now defunct forum re: tuning the Barchetta Engine. See:

http://sfconline.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5375

 

[DimeDimovski]

It is my understanding that the Barchetta and Punto HGT 1.8 16V engines are difficult and expensive to get more power out of them with the normal engine tuning upgrades.

I think? the reasons are:

1) Already a well designed setup with regards to head flow also with variable cam timing
2) Fairly complex intake resonator to improve induction
3) Hitachi Engine ECU is not really tuneable

To get any real increase one would have to probably go down the "low" to "mild" turbo route and also have a completely different ECU and possibly new injectors.

All very expensive.

Here is an old thread on a now defunct forum re: tuning the Barchetta Engine. See:

http://sfconline.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5375

How much would an 8psi turbo kit cost me? Would I need to make major changes to the engine or change the ECU?

 

[s130]

How much would an 8psi turbo kit cost me? Would I need to make major changes to the engine or change the ECU?

I have no idea. I've personally never done an turbo/supercharger engine modifications. All I know is that they can be expensive if you don't want to blow your engine up.

All I've ever done is play with ram air where we are talking say 3+ PSI. This only works/helps where you can get velocty up and maintain it under full throttle, like on a race track. Basically useless for general road use.

The stock 130BHP in the "B" is pretty good and fexible across most driving. Personally I see no real need to boost this so the questions I would ask are:

1) Are you sure your car is well tuned and delivering factory performance? This is cruscial to know before venturing further!

2) What is it you or your "B" are lacking? Top BHP, Torque, ? What is you driving style objective? Point to pont to point cross country, drag racing, etc.

 

[AndyRKett]

130hp was/is around the best performance you will get out of a 1.8 litre engine without a turbo from that period.

if you look at a lot of other 1.8 petrol engines from that era, without a turbo very few produce any more power.

Fiat did manage to get a decent amount more power out of the engine by changing the pistons, crank, connecting rods and cam with reduced the capacity to 1600cc then with a custom tunable ECU and performance intake and exhaust, as well as lightening and balancing everything they possibly could so it would rev to 9000rpm, they manage to push the HGT engine to just over 200hp, then dropped it in the Punto 1600s rally car, those cars fetch over £100k these days, so it just goes to show how specialist that treatment was.

To fit a Turbo would cost several thousand and a lot of specialist fabrication. There isn't just a Turbo kit you can bolt on the Barchetta, That's not to say people haven't done it, but if you are not able to DIY a large portion of the work then you're going to need a very big bank balance.

 

[s130]

Those custom rally/race engines, especially when rallying, are all about continuous high rpm, close gear rations and all balls out driving. They often idle at 2000-3000 rpm and at gutless / torqueless for anything other than race/rally use.

I enjoyed reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines

Gives a good idea of the difficulties in get power out of an engine (naturally aspirated or turbo) and some nice history.

 

[Bartazar]

130hp was/is around the best performance you will get out of a 1.8 litre engine without a turbo from that period.

if you look at a lot of other 1.8 petrol engines from that era, without a turbo very few produce any more power.

Alfa Romeo managed to get 144bhp from the same 1.8 base engine (1.8 Twin Spark 16V).

Not to mention the S2000 which produced an extra 100HP with only 200cc bigger displacement in 1999

 

[AndyRKett]

Alfa Romeo managed to get 144bhp from the same 1.8 base engine (1.8 Twin Spark 16V).

Different head, different Cam, produced its power higher up the rev range. not a modification you can just slap on and lets be honest here, that is only 14hp more, its not going to be all that noticeable.

Not to mention the S2000 which produced an extra 100HP with only 200cc bigger displacement in 1999

as already discussed above the 1600s (and the S2000) were built for motor sport, they were not road engines. They had significant modifications to the whole engine that would cost thousands if not tens of thousands to reproduce in a road car.

If you had deep pockets then by all means you can have the crank balanced and lightened, forged pistons and conrods, ported and polished cylinder heads, custom intakes and exhaust, lightened and balanced flywheel, racing clutch etc etc, and yeah you'll get a bit more power out of the old 1.8... but to get that work done will cost thousands.

 

[Bartazar]

Different head, different Cam, produced its power higher up the rev range. not a modification you can just slap on and lets be honest here, that is only 14hp more, its not going to be all that noticeable.



as already discussed above the 1600s (and the S2000) were built for motor sport, they were not road engines. They had significant modifications to the whole engine that would cost thousands if not tens of thousands to reproduce in a road car.

If you had deep pockets then by all means you can have the crank balanced and lightened, forged pistons and conrods, ported and polished cylinder heads, custom intakes and exhaust, lightened and balanced flywheel, racing clutch etc etc, and yeah you'll get a bit more power out of the old 1.8... but to get that work done will cost thousands.

Right, I definitely agree, there are no easy/cheap mods to make more power on the Fiat 1.8L engine.
That said, I don't think the S2000 can be compared to a homologated rally car. It's a road car, Honda sold more than 100.000 of them and it has a 12000KM service interval.
But yeah admittedly the S2000 is pretty unique and known for its specific output. All the other similar cars (MX5, MR2) etc. have similar power per CC.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Are we conflating the Honda S2000, which was always a road car engine and as noted had normal service intervals etc with the Abarth Grande Punto S2000 which was very much a homologation special motorsport engine?

 

[AndyRKett]

That said, I don't think the S2000 can be compared to a homologated rally car.

Here’s the thing, we were talking about fiats and the Punto 1600 which uses the HGT/barchetta engine. Google “Punto S2000” and you will find that this is a rally version of the Grande Punto. This is what I thought you were talking about.

I’m not even sure why you would compare a Honda S2000 which is a bigger displacement, much higher revving and higher compression ratio, which it’s a totally different engine and much more refined

 

[Bartazar]

Well, I reacted to:

130hp was/is around the best performance you will get out of a 1.8 litre engine without a turbo from that period.

if you look at a lot of other 1.8 petrol engines from that era, without a turbo very few produce any more power.

Which is not just about Fiat engines (at least that was impression), so I brought up the Alfa and Honda.
Yes, the S2000 is not 1.8L but I was just pointing out that 130bhp from a 1.8L is not super high performance per se. If honda decided to bore/stroke the S2000 to 1.8L it would still make well over 200bhp.

 

[AndyRKett]

If honda decided to bore/stroke the S2000 to 1.8L it would still make well over 200bhp.

But the Honda engine is still not a Fiat engine, not only does it use the VTEC variable valve timing which is far superior to the variator used on the Fiat 1.8, it also reved to 9000rpm, so clearly was much more refined and better built and balanced than the fiat engine.

When honda did put a 1.8 litre Vtec engine in the civic it had 140hp......and didn't rev to 9000rpm. So the Honda S2000 was a rather special case and there is no comparison.

Look at other similar engines from that era. The Vauxhall 1.8 from about 2001, pushed out ~130hp. The ford Zetec engines from that era pushed out ~115hp the engine used in the 206GTI was a 134hp 1.8.

somewhere around 130hp was the the going rate for a 1.8 litre non turbo engine from that period so I stand by my earlier statement

if you look at a lot of other 1.8 petrol engines from that era, without a turbo very few produce any more power.

 

[s130]

I've looked at the Power and Torque curves a quite a few engines and yest the S2000 is fairly impressive.

However let us get back to the original OP's question / quest for tuning the Barchetta 1.8 engine. The truth is (IMHO) is is not a finacially viable tuning project. You would be possibly better off putting a completely different engine in the vehicle. But even then you will have all sorts of space, gearbox, drive shaft etc. issues to address.

Unless the OP has 1000s or multiple to 10,000 of money to spend then the Barchetta 1.8 engine tuning for much improved power etc. is NOT the way to go.
By all means people are free to try and do what they can but with the B's 1.8 engine real progress in performance will be hard to get and expensive.

Talks about other engines like the S2000 type are irrelevant to the OP's original question/quest.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

The S2000 engine is impressive on paper but I hated mine to actually drive and sold it after 3 months

Isn't the answer to extra power for sensible cash almost always forced induction like the MX5?

 

[s130]

The S2000 engine is impressive on paper but I hated mine to actually drive and sold it after 3 months

Isn't the answer to extra power for sensible cash almost always forced induction like the MX5?

Go even better and put the Fiat/Lancia Triflux engine in. 600BHP from 1.8 litres.

 

[rmjbn1]

If OP is interested in covering ground more quickly, maybe consider fast road driving tuition?
It will make your car safer as well as faster.
Then, make sure standard suspension, steering and brakes are in good condition, fit decent tyres, avoid carrying any excess weight, and have fun

 

[348azeus]

It’s not difficult to get more power out of the Barchetta but it’s not cheap. You will need a pair of Columbo and Bariani Cams. Gas Flow the head. Change the air intake and fit a 75mm Exhaust with a sports Cat. That will get you close to 150 but will cost at least £3000 (€3500) if you do the work. That’s not a great power increase. If you get a stand-alone ECU and fit some larger injectors you could probably get to around 165.
The comment earlier about performance driving does have its merits but what I would probably do is concentrate on the suspension and tyres. My Barchetta has Koni Adjustables on the front and Spax adjustable on the rear. Coilovers would be a better solution but I’m running springs standard height but 15% stiffer as the car is for road use. It also has Toyo 888R’s and Ferodo DS2500 pads. This makes it a far more sporty driving car as it’s quite soft in standard form.