General Fiat 500 EV conversion

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General Fiat 500 EV conversion

pittsburgcat

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I have a 1967 Fiat 500 and want to convert it to electric. There are a few companies that make kits but they seem very expensive. Silent Connections kit is $33k. I was wondering if anyone has done a conversion like this and if so, what is the best, least expensive way to do it? I came across some used 500e's selling for $5k and the thought went thru my head to figure out how to utilize the drivetrain for my classic?? Would love to hear thoughts.
 
I have a 1967 Fiat 500 and want to convert it to electric. There are a few companies that make kits but they seem very expensive. Silent Connections kit is $33k. I was wondering if anyone has done a conversion like this and if so, what is the best, least expensive way to do it? I came across some used 500e's selling for $5k and the thought went thru my head to figure out how to utilize the drivetrain for my classic?? Would love to hear thoughts.
Other may have different opinions.
There was a company in Wales that was on TV series doing it.
My thoughts are it is an expensive way of destroying the characteristics of the original vehicle, it may be faster but it will be much heavier so will not handle the same and need up rated brakes and tyres/suspension etc. to cope with it.
If I had to drive an EV vehicle it would only be one designed from the ground up to be an EV, otherwise I feel you end up with the worst of both Worlds.:(
However I am sure there will be others on Forum with an opposing view to give balance.;)
 
I have a 1967 Fiat 500 and want to convert it to electric. There are a few companies that make kits but they seem very expensive. Silent Connections kit is $33k. I was wondering if anyone has done a conversion like this and if so, what is the best, least expensive way to do it? I came across some used 500e's selling for $5k and the thought went thru my head to figure out how to utilize the drivetrain for my classic?? Would love to hear thoughts.
There’s an Italian company doing kits, I think they keep the gearbox and supply uprated brakes and rear suspension
 
There’s an Italian company doing kits, I think they keep the gearbox and supply uprated brakes and rear suspension
Apologies if this offends the "progressives", but I completely agree with "Bugsy" An 'electrified' classic 500 (and Motobambino have done one, and market them) has a 'size/range'problem----there is not a lot of space to fit batteries. The conversion done by the Welsh company (and they destroyed a perfectly good car, just because the lady couldn't double-de-clutch basically) only had a very limited range. One of the 'pluses' of the 500 is its light weight---shoving a multitude of batteries into it dramatically increases that weight, which upsets the handling and braking. The standard 500's brakes are marginal in modern traffic---shove a lot of extra weight into it and they become 'unsuitable' You will have to go to disc-brakes at the front (waste of time and money on the rear) AND increase both wheel and tyre width. With disc brakes on the front,and standard size wheels/tyres, you will find that you can easily lock-up the front brakes IN THE DRY---image it on a wet road! The kits ARE expensive, and fitting them is NOT an "over a weekend" job--a lot of the car has to be up-rated to cope with the extra weight. I also agree with "Bugsy" in that if I HAD to drive an electric vehicle (which I fervently hope that I never have to do), I would only do it if it was designed as an EV from the ground up.
 
I've driven an EV for the last 6 years. They are by far better than internal combustion engines and gearboxes. My 500 is for fun, but it would be miserable as a commuter.

A Citroen Ami might be a good source of the electricals. It's kerb weight is 485kg, so is a bit lighter than a 500. The range is only 46 miles and would be a bit less in the heavier 500. De-restricted, an Ami can do about 50 MPH. It's motor and controller are off the shelf parts, so I imagine there is stuff on the internet in how to configure them.

The battery is said to weigh 60kg. The motor and differential likely to be about 20. Then you've got the controller and wiring. I'm guessing 90kg all in. How much does a 500 engine and transaxle weigh, plus a full fuel tank?
 
I've driven an EV for the last 6 years. They are by far better than internal combustion engines and gearboxes. My 500 is for fun, but it would be miserable as a commuter.

A Citroen Ami might be a good source of the electricals. It's kerb weight is 485kg, so is a bit lighter than a 500. The range is only 46 miles and would be a bit less in the heavier 500. De-restricted, an Ami can do about 50 MPH. It's motor and controller are off the shelf parts, so I imagine there is stuff on the internet in how to configure them.

The battery is said to weigh 60kg. The motor and differential likely to be about 20. Then you've got the controller and wiring. I'm guessing 90kg all in. How much does a 500 engine and transaxle weigh, plus a full fuel tank?
In the days when I worked for Radbourne-Racing, and carrying out the engine conversions on (usually new) Fiat 500s, I could lift the engine from the ground up to the work-bench---I am pretty sure that they didn't weigh 200lbs. (I can't do that now!) In those days I HAD to use my 500 as my 'commute to work-car' --it was all I had, and the commute was from South London (West Wickham) to, effectively, Chelsea---and I enjoyed it. It is still fun to drive a 500 in traffic, at the same speed as all the big luxury and SUV vehicles---and I can often get through gaps that they can't even think about.
 
I bet the fuel, the tank and the plumbing weighs 18kg. I'd expect the 15kW motor, gearbox adapter plate and drive electronics to be about the same. So if the 500 engine weighs the same 60kg as the Ami battery, you're about even. From memory, a Yamaha R1 engine and gearbox comes in at 60kg. A Rover K series engine (no gearbox) is all on 100kg, but a Reliant engine was under 40kg, which is why they were used in club racing.

I wouldn't do the conversion though. A car with a 40 mile range is just a toy. Adding more weight to increase the range would just spoil the car.
 
At the end of the day, if EVs were a practical alternative to ICE vehicles everyone would drive them.
None of us want to pollute the atmosphere, but we do need to carry out our normal lives.
Currently even with all the advances they have made, in general terms they are still seen as a "rich man's toy" to many who just need a cheap, economical and practical vehicle that they can buy second hand and either repair themselves or have repaired at their local garage cheaply and in all honesty EV's are not at that stage in their development.:)
 
At the end of the day, if EVs were a practical alternative to ICE vehicles everyone would drive them.
None of us want to pollute the atmosphere, but we do need to carry out our normal lives.
Currently even with all the advances they have made, in general terms they are still seen as a "rich man's toy" to many who just need a cheap, economical and practical vehicle that they can buy second hand and either repair themselves or have repaired at their local garage cheaply and in all honesty EV's are not at that stage in their development.:)
Totally agree with you 'Bugsy'. At the risk of annoying the 'EV brigade', most of the (Classic) 500s that we are running around in are, on average 55 years old---the engines are strippable, rebuildable, and parts are replaceable---can anybody convince me that ANY "EV" will have that same level of "rebuildabilty" in even 20 years time, let alone 55 years time? Both Volvo and VAG have produced 'Technical papers' where they have admitted that, when you take construction into account as well, an "EV" is NOT green until it has covered about 55 to 60 THOUSAND miles! There is no such thing as "fully green" energy"---it is just that some methods are less polluting than other methods of producing it, and we must continue to improve the "lesser polluting" methods.
I will concede that the very small (Fiat 500, original Mini, Citroen Ami etc) 'classics' when converted to "EV" most probably don't weigh a lot more (although they DO weigh more) than the "IC" original, but when you get to the 'every-day use' "EV" cars, they weigh in at one heck of a lot more than the 'IC' versions.
To their owners, 2 of the 'plusses' of owning a 'classic' are (a) the sound-track and (b) the physical connectivity to the driving experience. Convert a classic to "EV" and point (a) is completely removed--who in their right mind (and somebody HAS done it) would "EV" a Ferrari 'Boxer'? and when you drive a modern, "fully EV" vehicle, point (b) is completely removed. Less and less engagment of brain is now needed when driving a modern car (of ANY power type) is this actually safer? (different subject I know---I just thought that I would throw it into the pot)
 
to be fair, my 500 is actually a Jolly conversion that we really only drive around the neighborhood so even 40 miles of range is plenty. I have had a few issues with the 126 engine in it and so just thought it may be a fun project to take on. I was hoping it could be done for $5k or so but that may be a pipe dream.
 
to be fair, my 500 is actually a Jolly conversion that we really only drive around the neighborhood so even 40 miles of range is plenty. I have had a few issues with the 126 engine in it and so just thought it may be a fun project to take on. I was hoping it could be done for $5k or so but that may be a pipe dream.
Converting ANY Classic to EVis an expensive excercise---as you have mentioned, the parts alone are going to be in the $30,000 plus range.Trying tofit the transmission system off a modern 500E into a Classic 500 would be a MAJOR engineering undertaking as just for a start, the 'engines' are at different ends of the cars. What is the problem with the 126 engine that is in your 'Jolly'?
 
I must say that I’m all for originality, but it’s their car to do what they want with.
The main issue I have with mods, is that they too should be contemporary to the car/van etc…have never liked the, for example, the classic 124 spyder that had an American lump and autobox stuck in it, or worse, the 131 with a Toyota engine in.
My late friend had a Jaguar ‘Giant’, all original and all with contemporary accessories, it came second to one that had a modern jaguar (at the time, late nineties) engine in. He left the Jaguar club after that.
My issues with EVs I’ve described before, not so eco wehn you consider the child labour and levelling rain forests to mine the precious metals needed and how we still predominantly produce the electricity
 
EV conversions in classics is undoubtedly going to become more popular, though it remains to be seen how far reaching the drive to remove IC vehicles will be (currently there is no viable substitute for liquid fuel ls in the agriculture industry that i'm in).
I hope that if any conversions are carried out, that they be 'fully reversible'-sort of a drop-in assembly that doesn't involve chopping up chassis and chucking away historically interesting components. There is a company in London converting Vespas, Lambrettas and the such to electric, but it's using all the existing frame mounting points etc.
 
Converting ANY Classic to EVis an expensive excercise---as you have mentioned, the parts alone are going to be in the $30,000 plus range.Trying tofit the transmission system off a modern 500E into a Classic 500 would be a MAJOR engineering undertaking as just for a start, the 'engines' are at different ends of the cars. What is the problem with the 126 engine that is in your 'Jolly'?
it was running fine, but then turned a corner while driving and suddenly it would not accelerate without trying to die. almost like it was running out of gas. very similar to the video below. it would idle, but would try to die when trying to accelerate.



I pulled the plugs and they were black so it seemed like too much gas (or not enough spark or air). I began by draining the gas tank, replacing the air and fuel filters and replaced the carburetor. next the coil. then the distributor cap and rotor. then the spark plugs. i clamped off the fuel line and let it run with the fuel in the bulb and it didn't change, so i eliminated any issue with the fuel pump. I finally called a mechanic that came out and basically went thru everything i had already done and left scratching his head. we played with carb settings, timing, checked and refreshed the points, checked the valve springs/valves, fuel flow etc...all the normal stuff. I have a condenser on order and if that doesn't work i'm going to change out the plug wires, although they appear to be relatively new. I love the jolly because everything is so cheap and it's fun to tinker with. that said, i bought this for my wife and she's losing patience :) If anyone has any other ideas, i'm all ears.
 
it was running fine, but then turned a corner while driving and suddenly it would not accelerate without trying to die. almost like it was running out of gas. very similar to the video below. it would idle, but would try to die when trying to accelerate.



I pulled the plugs and they were black so it seemed like too much gas (or not enough spark or air). I began by draining the gas tank, replacing the air and fuel filters and replaced the carburetor. next the coil. then the distributor cap and rotor. then the spark plugs. i clamped off the fuel line and let it run with the fuel in the bulb and it didn't change, so i eliminated any issue with the fuel pump. I finally called a mechanic that came out and basically went thru everything i had already done and left scratching his head. we played with carb settings, timing, checked and refreshed the points, checked the valve springs/valves, fuel flow etc...all the normal stuff. I have a condenser on order and if that doesn't work i'm going to change out the plug wires, although they appear to be relatively new. I love the jolly because everything is so cheap and it's fun to tinker with. that said, i bought this for my wife and she's losing patience :) If anyone has any other ideas, i'm all ears.

I'm definitely with the "keep the petrol engine brigade", but I have empathy with people such as your wife, who simply want to enjoy the car, without the need to mess about with it all the time, or to worry about its reliability. I doubt that any of us can say that we achieve more than a few thousand miles without a problem. Given the intermittent use that most classic cars get, that mileage might be measured in hundreds.

I'm sure that an EV conversion would be better suited in this situation, but you might still encounter frustrating problems with brakes, steering, basic elecrics and with wheel bearings.

You might be better with a modern EV such as the Citroen Ami, which is also cute and unusual, and a bit retro.
I have comparable dilemma....I would love the companionship of a small dog, but would need a fluffy ball that doesn't necessitate me to carry poo-bags. ;) I can't convert a real dog to eliminate that downside that they have, so I have compromised with a big, cuddly one from IKEA. ;)
 
EV conversions in classics is undoubtedly going to become more popular, though it remains to be seen how far reaching the drive to remove IC vehicles will be (currently there is no viable substitute for liquid fuel ls in the agriculture industry that i'm in).
I hope that if any conversions are carried out, that they be 'fully reversible'-sort of a drop-in assembly that doesn't involve chopping up chassis and chucking away historically interesting components. There is a company in London converting Vespas, Lambrettas and the such to electric, but it's using all the existing frame mounting points etc.
We are farmers and there’s nothing to compete with diesel engines for grunt, towing capacity and range…that electric JCB tractor that everyone and his dog says ‘is the future’ is a gimmick, a flawed one at that. Not that I’d buy anything from JCB or, for that matter, Deere, aptly named as they’re expensive to buy, run and repair
We do, however, have an electric UTV, it’s not got the towing capacity of our old Polaris, but has proved reliable, quick and it’s 38m range is adequate to do the job it was designed for
 
EV conversions in classics is undoubtedly going to become more popular, though it remains to be seen how far reaching the drive to remove IC vehicles will be (currently there is no viable substitute for liquid fuel ls in the agriculture industry that i'm in).
I hope that if any conversions are carried out, that they be 'fully reversible'-sort of a drop-in assembly that doesn't involve chopping up chassis and chucking away historically interesting components. There is a company in London converting Vespas, Lambrettas and the such to electric, but it's using all the existing frame mounting points etc.
If one converts a 'Classic' to EV, the ORIGINAL engine mounts have to be retained----just think of the 'fun' that the guy who put an electric motor into a Ferrari 'Testarossa' had! He had to build a complete sub-frame that bolted onto the original Ferrari engine engine mounts, into which the electric motor and transmission system were then fitted into. On top of that, as a 'classic' Mini owner found, to his great cost, one is NOT allowed to convert them back to I.C. if ANY additional holes have been created (to run wiring looms etc through), and just to make it even more complicated (in the UK), if you DO convert an I.C. powered car/van to EV, there is a very good chance that if you have created any 'passage'holes that were not part of the vehicle's original construction, when the vehicle is presented to the "Vehicle Inspection" depot, the Inspector will say "NO!"
 
The only conversions I did were petrol to diesel and made sense to me as long as a "grunty" turbo diesel.
Around 50 years ago I knew a banger racer locally who fitted a big commercial diesel engine in his Mk 9 Jaguar with success. I am not sure what he did with the gearing as I recall people who fitted old Perkins 4.203 engines to Range Rovers finding top speed drastically reduced, even with overdrive fitted etc.;););)
 
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