ahmett
Prominent member
The car was fixed under warranty almost exactly a year ago so i may have some leeway here i hope...
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Technical fiat 500 dualogic multiple failures
I wonder if this head anything to do with you doing high rpm launches? Hmmmmm
ahmett
Prominent member
Maxi if you remember correctly my car broke in the exact same way 1 year ago without me ever having learned how to do that. I only did it a few times anyway. I am a bit suspicious of this problem as it is exactly the same one that happened when it broke under warranty.
ahmett
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62000 km. i am driving it until monday but only in auto and very carefully to not break the seal.
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The same mechanism is being used in the same way, whether you're in auto mode, or manual, so I wouldn't be too concerned about what mode you drive it in.
ahmett
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Funny enough it only let me drives in auto. If i start moving the lever it says manual mode unavailable it switches to auto by default! And if i play too much the red transmission light comes on and says check transmission!
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I'll bet your thrashing the knackers out of it has worn the clutch, and put the engagement position out, which will mean the timing of gearchanges goes wrong. It's quite a clever system that compares the flywheel speed to the gearbox input shaft speed (to determine clutch engagement), but relies on the clutch engaging at a certain point in the clutch actuator travel.
Usually an EOL adjustment process (it's basically the same system on the Alfa 156) which involves adjusting the clutch whilst you look at the position readout using live data from the gearbox ECU, it'll then go through the motions of changing through all of the gears to check where they engage based on the travel sensor readings. Or a sensor will have failed, so it hasn't got that gearshift travel information. Unfortunately, the accountants got in on the act on the 156 gearchange unit, and the sensors aren't officially available separately, BUT you can use Maserati ones which are available separately and are the same.
For a long term proposition, hopefully the 500s system is the same.
Usually an EOL adjustment process (it's basically the same system on the Alfa 156) which involves adjusting the clutch whilst you look at the position readout using live data from the gearbox ECU, it'll then go through the motions of changing through all of the gears to check where they engage based on the travel sensor readings. Or a sensor will have failed, so it hasn't got that gearshift travel information. Unfortunately, the accountants got in on the act on the 156 gearchange unit, and the sensors aren't officially available separately, BUT you can use Maserati ones which are available separately and are the same.
For a long term proposition, hopefully the 500s system is the same.
ahmett
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That's what i mean by i think i should change car. I drove like this for 2 years with a manual and never had any problems.
If you just stopped driving like a moron then your car wouldn't break
ahmett
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Maxi don't be an idiot that judges without knowing the facts. We all know on this forum you have this problem. I drive my fiat exactly the same as i drive any other car with a manual or auto and this has never happened. Whats more annoying is that it is a recurring fault and whenever they reset the system it gets better.
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Yeah, I think it's a good idea. Go and buy a German car - they're 100% reliable
Seriously though - there's a few people with dualogic cars on here, and I don't see a huge list of people reporting faults. Could that be due to an uncured fault on your car?
ahmett
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Yeah, I think it's a good idea. Go and buy a German car - they're 100% reliable
Seriously though - there's a few people with dualogic cars on here, and I don't see a huge list of people reporting faults. Could that be due to an uncured fault on your car?
You are right! I even asked my dealer and he said only you! I am on a first name basis with them (not good!).
So it is either an uncured fault with the car or my driving.
I will see what they say on Monday.
But i guess i am better off with a manual, there are much less things that can go wrong with a manual box.
And i was considering the mini instead of another fiat 500 because i dont like turbo cars and as a result dont want the TA. I wouldnt want to pay the same money for a downgrade,
in that the brakes of the car are smaller so you slow down less and there is no top end with the TA, and ABSOLUTELY NO engine braking.
I really doubt its me frying the clutch, because the duallogic has a safeguard for that, if you try parking on a hill and start smelling clutch the gearbox goes by itself into protection mode.
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The TA engine needs a bit of time to acclimatise, it IS quite different, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. The brakes work fine, and yes the power is focussed in the midrange, but that just means you drive it on the torque curve, rather than flogging the guts out of it at high revs - there's no need to. Keep it within the 1800-3000 rpm range and it pulls really hard (for a little engine), and it'll happily pull to 120mph (indicated) in fifth - and it doesn't take that long to get there.
Of course, having another half a litre of engine capacity is going to make a difference, but the TA is pretty hard to beat for day to day usage.
Sounds to me like you're not really going to be happy with any 500, though. Might want to move to a more performance focussed car.
I had an alfa 156 selespeed a few years ago...I would never buy that sort of gearbox again.
I nearly went for the DSG box on my audi but I had a 24hr test drive and was going for it in the car in manual setting and it just decided to change gear for me... totally when I did not want it to. I went for the 6 speed box in the end.
I nearly went for the DSG box on my audi but I had a 24hr test drive and was going for it in the car in manual setting and it just decided to change gear for me... totally when I did not want it to. I went for the 6 speed box in the end.
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That's the thing, there are a lot of us that derive satisfaction in timing a gear change well, getting the change point right so the engine drops into peak power/torque, and changing smoothly and quickly.
A 'computer' just cant do this in the same way - it doesn't know the whole story. The only automatic gearboxes that work well in my opinion are those attached to bigger capacity engines where the torque band is wide enough to cover any 'holes' in poor gearchanges. And even then, they can be frustrating at times.
A 'computer' just cant do this in the same way - it doesn't know the whole story. The only automatic gearboxes that work well in my opinion are those attached to bigger capacity engines where the torque band is wide enough to cover any 'holes' in poor gearchanges. And even then, they can be frustrating at times.
The Ferrari 458 I had a drive of has the same sort of gearbox and I must say it was perfection. It just goes to show fiat can make one that works.
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Somewhat different class of car though
I should imagine the time spent on developing the software, tuning it to the engine's responses, as well as the sheer number of sensors gather information from the car is an order of magnitude greater on a car like this than the same system on a shopping car with a posh frock on.
FIAT did pioneer the whole robotised gearbox thing, but clearly on small cars it has to be built down to a price.
I should imagine the time spent on developing the software, tuning it to the engine's responses, as well as the sheer number of sensors gather information from the car is an order of magnitude greater on a car like this than the same system on a shopping car with a posh frock on.
FIAT did pioneer the whole robotised gearbox thing, but clearly on small cars it has to be built down to a price.
ahmett
Prominent member
Somewhat different class of car though
I should imagine the time spent on developing the software, tuning it to the engine's responses, as well as the sheer number of sensors gather information from the car is an order of magnitude greater on a car like this than the same system on a shopping car with a posh frock on.
FIAT did pioneer the whole robotised gearbox thing, but clearly on small cars it has to be built down to a price.
I had asked the Fiat dealer why the Alfa Romeo's had the dual clutch gearboxes while the Fiats have to make due with the dualogic, they said it is because the Alfa Romeo is considered more premium. That statement for me goes to show that the Duallogic is a cheaply made gearbox, even though they charge 1000 euros for it!
In reality, maybe I should have test drove the duallogic more than I did before making a decision. If I knew I would have had these problems I would have gone for the manual. This is too late to change of course, but lets see what comes out of it on Monday. I really lost confidence in it though because I have been to the dealer at least 5 times in the past year due to this issue.
Maybe it is time to move on, I don't want to drive a car always being nervous whether it will work or not when I change the gears manually.
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The reason the 500 doesn't have a dual clutch 'box is because there wouldn't be room. They're not the paragon of reliability either.
